Fully manual digital SLR? at DVinfo.net

Frank Ladner · November 13th, 2006, 10:18 PM

Fully manual digital SLR...

Does one exist? I mean, I know they can be switched between auto and manual but I don't like the idea of paying for something I won't use. (When I got my Canon GL2 DV camera, I switched it on manual and have never changed it back to auto.)

I enjoy shooting with my old built-like-a-tank Praktica 35mm film camera and am searching for something similar in a digital model. However, I'm fully aware of supply and demand...meaning that you just about can't get anything that doesn't have auto-focus, auto-exposure, auto-shutter, auto-etc...

Does ANYTHING close to this type of digital SLR exist or would I have to build one? (If I have to build one - any pointers on that ... I envision getting a full-frame sensor to replace the film backing in an old, sturdy 35mm cam but that is a bit far-fetched when I think of all the extra stuff required, like how to get the image into a digital format, etc...)

Any help would be appreciated! :)

Eric Darling · November 13th, 2006, 11:14 PM

By its nature, a digital SLR without automatic features wouldn't be very marketable. For that reason, I'm sure there aren't any on the market. On the other hand, any DSLR worth its salt will enable you to deactivate any or all of the automatic features easily. So, much like your GL2 experience, I'm afraid that's probably the most realistic route for you.

Chris Hurd · November 13th, 2006, 11:59 PM

There isn't a single D-SLR on the market that isn't full manual. However, all of them also offer full auto as well. Don't think of the auto features as "paying for something you won't use." Think of them as freebies, and that way you're not out of pocket.

I'm not about to question your ability to build your own, but consider this... the time, and especially the money involved will far exceed the much more convenient and easily affordable task of simply buying the least expensive D-SLR on the market, which is the eight megapixel Canon EOS Rebel XT.

Turn the command dial to the "M" program mode. Get some JB Weld and glue it permanently in place. Take a Sharpie and black out all of the other program mode icons on that dial. Congratulations, you now own a "full manual only" camera, for less time and less money than it would have taken to build your own.

Frank Granovski · November 14th, 2006, 12:21 AM

The Epson RD1 isn't a digital SLR---a rangefinder---but it's as close as you can get to a manual digital camera. It will take M-mount lenses and Leica screw mount with a $50 Voigtlander lens adaptor. Leica M-mount lenses were made buy some Japanese camera/lens companies and they are still made by Cosina under the Voigtlander brand.

Frank Ladner · November 14th, 2006, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Eric Darling: By its nature, a digital SLR without automatic features wouldn't be very marketable. For that reason, I'm sure there aren't any on the market. On the other hand, any DSLR worth its salt will enable you to deactivate any or all of the automatic features easily. So, much like your GL2 experience, I'm afraid that's probably the most realistic route for you.

Now begins the process of figuring out WHICH of the many DSLRs to consider... (Any recommendations for a budget-conscious person?)

Quote:

Chris Hurd: Turn the command dial to the "M" program mode. Get some JB Weld and glue it permanently in place. Take a Sharpie and black out all of the other program mode icons on that dial. Congratulations, you now own a "full manual only" camera, for less time and less money than it would have taken to build your own.

Ha ha!

Well, you are likely correct with regard to the time and money issue! I was hoping that maybe similar developments had been taking place in the DIY-Stills department as have been going on with the DV-DOV adapters, as I was able to build a few of those...but after thinking about it those are not nearly as complex, since the actual imaging system is in place (the camera) for you already. Much different than developing your own digital 35mm SLR.

Quote:

Frank Granovski: The Epson RD1 isn't a digital SLR---a rangefinder---but it's as close as you can get to a manual digital camera. It will take M-mount lenses and Leica screw mount with a $50 Voigtlander lens adaptor. Leica M-mount lenses were made buy some Japanese camera/lens companies and they are still made by Cosina under the Voigtlander brand.

Thanks, Frank! I like the look of that RD1, and the fact that it accepts M-mounts with an adapter. The price is out of my range at the moment, though. Still...I like to look at it. :)

Also...any Canon DSLRs on the market that accept FD lenses readily? (I assume an adapter is required here.) I ask because I have a surplus of FD lenses from my homemade Mini35 experiments.

Thanks, guys!

Chris Hurd · November 14th, 2006, 08:17 AM

See "Home-made Adapter for Canon FD lenses on EOS bodies"
located at http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-eos-to-fd-adapter.html

As well as http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses/

"Problems with Canon FD manual lenses... can such lenses be attached to EOS cameras?

Unfortunately the lens mounts used by the two systems are completely incompatible. FD lens mounts are smaller in diameter, have a different lens register from EF lenses, rely on mechanical levers to control lens aperture, are of a breech-lock design (rotating pressure ring) and never contain autofocus motors.* EF lens mounts are larger in diameter, are of a bayonet mount design (put lens into camera and rotate partway to lock), support electronic control of the lens aperture and the lenses usually contain autofocus motors.

When it comes to adapting FD lenses to EOS cameras the key difference here is the lens register incompatibility. Adapters for Canon FD-mount lenses, including the two adapter models that Canon themselves sold at one point, must deal with this incompatibility somehow. Either they contain optics (glass lens elements) to compensate for the register difference and retain infinity focus or else they don’t contain optics and don’t retain infinity focus. There’s no way around this."

and http://www.bobatkins.com/photography...focus_EOS.html

Eric Darling · November 14th, 2006, 08:26 AM

In terms of digital SLRs, the price really breaks most obviously among types of sensors - full or less-than-full. The Canon 20D or 30D and Nikon D200 or D80 are probably the right place to start looking for the budget-conscious professional. Neither are full sensor, but both cost considerably less than their full sensor brethren.

Steve Maller · November 14th, 2006, 08:49 AM

If you really want fully-manual, then you may want to look at an old Hassy body and a 2- or 3-year-old MF back. Not up on all that stuff myself (I'm a Canon DSLR shooter) but there are some advantages if you're used to living in the MF world.

Frank Granovski · November 14th, 2006, 05:12 PM

The RD1 is an M-mount camera.

What I tried to say is that you can use Leica screw mount lenses as well with a $50 USD Voigtlander M-mount ---> Leica screw-mount adaptor. You don't need the adaptor for M-mount lenses from Leica, Voigtlander etc.

Frank Ladner · November 15th, 2006, 10:50 AM

Ahh, I gotcha Frank! Sorry about that.

Thanks for the clarification!

November 13th, 2006, 10:18 PM	#1
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Fully manual digital SLR? Fully manual digital SLR... Does one exist? I mean, I know they can be switched between auto and manual but I don't like the idea of paying for something I won't use. (When I got my Canon GL2 DV camera, I switched it on manual and have never changed it back to auto.) I enjoy shooting with my old built-like-a-tank Praktica 35mm film camera and am searching for something similar in a digital model. However, I'm fully aware of supply and demand...meaning that you just about can't get anything that doesn't have auto-focus, auto-exposure, auto-shutter, auto-etc... Does ANYTHING close to this type of digital SLR exist or would I have to build one? (If I have to build one - any pointers on that ... I envision getting a full-frame sensor to replace the film backing in an old, sturdy 35mm cam but that is a bit far-fetched when I think of all the extra stuff required, like how to get the image into a digital format, etc...) Any help would be appreciated! :)

November 13th, 2006, 11:59 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	There isn't a single D-SLR on the market that isn't full manual. However, all of them also offer full auto as well. Don't think of the auto features as "paying for something you won't use." Think of them as freebies, and that way you're not out of pocket. I'm not about to question your ability to build your own, but consider this... the time, and especially the money involved will far exceed the much more convenient and easily affordable task of simply buying the least expensive D-SLR on the market, which is the eight megapixel Canon EOS Rebel XT. Turn the command dial to the "M" program mode. Get some JB Weld and glue it permanently in place. Take a Sharpie and black out all of the other program mode icons on that dial. Congratulations, you now own a "full manual only" camera, for less time and less money than it would have taken to build your own. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 14th, 2006, 08:17 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	See "Home-made Adapter for Canon FD lenses on EOS bodies" located at http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/text-eos-to-fd-adapter.html As well as http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses/ "Problems with Canon FD manual lenses... can such lenses be attached to EOS cameras? Unfortunately the lens mounts used by the two systems are completely incompatible. FD lens mounts are smaller in diameter, have a different lens register from EF lenses, rely on mechanical levers to control lens aperture, are of a breech-lock design (rotating pressure ring) and never contain autofocus motors.* EF lens mounts are larger in diameter, are of a bayonet mount design (put lens into camera and rotate partway to lock), support electronic control of the lens aperture and the lenses usually contain autofocus motors. When it comes to adapting FD lenses to EOS cameras the key difference here is the lens register incompatibility. Adapters for Canon FD-mount lenses, including the two adapter models that Canon themselves sold at one point, must deal with this incompatibility somehow. Either they contain optics (glass lens elements) to compensate for the register difference and retain infinity focus or else they don’t contain optics and don’t retain infinity focus. There’s no way around this." and http://www.bobatkins.com/photography...focus_EOS.html __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 14th, 2006, 08:49 AM	#8
Steve Maller Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Burlingame, CA USA Posts: 285	If you really want fully-manual, then you may want to look at an old Hassy body and a 2- or 3-year-old MF back. Not up on all that stuff myself (I'm a Canon DSLR shooter) but there are some advantages if you're used to living in the MF world. __________________ me@facebook: http://facebook.com/stevemallerphotography

November 13th, 2006, 11:14 PM	#2
Eric Darling Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 463	By its nature, a digital SLR without automatic features wouldn't be very marketable. For that reason, I'm sure there aren't any on the market. On the other hand, any DSLR worth its salt will enable you to deactivate any or all of the automatic features easily. So, much like your GL2 experience, I'm afraid that's probably the most realistic route for you.

November 14th, 2006, 12:21 AM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The Epson RD1 isn't a digital SLR---a rangefinder---but it's as close as you can get to a manual digital camera. It will take M-mount lenses and Leica screw mount with a $50 Voigtlander lens adaptor. Leica M-mount lenses were made buy some Japanese camera/lens companies and they are still made by Cosina under the Voigtlander brand.

November 14th, 2006, 08:26 AM	#7
Eric Darling Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 463	In terms of digital SLRs, the price really breaks most obviously among types of sensors - full or less-than-full. The Canon 20D or 30D and Nikon D200 or D80 are probably the right place to start looking for the budget-conscious professional. Neither are full sensor, but both cost considerably less than their full sensor brethren.

November 14th, 2006, 05:12 PM	#9
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The RD1 is an M-mount camera. What I tried to say is that you can use Leica screw mount lenses as well with a $50 USD Voigtlander M-mount ---> Leica screw-mount adaptor. You don't need the adaptor for M-mount lenses from Leica, Voigtlander etc.

November 15th, 2006, 10:50 AM	#10
Frank Ladner Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Poplarville, MS Posts: 453	Ahh, I gotcha Frank! Sorry about that. Thanks for the clarification!