advice for buying an SLR camera

Jeff Donald · August 25th, 2002, 10:44 AM

Eye control is not discontinued (at least in the US). The EOS 3 has 45 eye control focus points. The Elan 7e has 7 eye control points, corresponding to the 7 focus points. I have both an EOS 3 and Elan 7e and use eye control all the time. It took about two weeks to get my brain to think in terms of eye control. But once it started thinking eye control it changed the way I take pictures. But I admit, its one of those, you either love it or hate it features. If you can get the Elan 7 fine, my concern is that the 28-200 may not do what you need it to do. Can you elaborate a little more on what you hope to shoot? Worse case is you sell the 28-200 on ebay and get what meets your needs the best.

Jeff

Dylan Couper · August 25th, 2002, 07:52 PM

Jeff, I was thinking the same thing you were in that I could sell the 28-200 lens that comes with it and just buy another.
I'll be doing mostly action sports, hockey, snowboarding, paintball, as well as portrait photography BTW.

I decided to go with the one on Ebay since I can pick it up in person and it's a good enough price that if I change my mind, I can put it for sale in the local classified ads and get my money back.
I ended up winning the auction for just under $500us, which is about the same price as a new Elan 7 body and a 28-90 lens would cost, before tax. I figure the total new price after tax would have been $900 or so, so I saved a bit of coin.

Anyhoo, I'll let you guys know how it works when I pick it up.
Thanks for the advice!

B. Moore · August 25th, 2002, 08:52 PM

Hi,
I like Nikons, but to me it seems personal taste.

If I were you, I'd get a Canon so you may get multiple uses out of your lenses.
My only word of caution, due to the fact canon is notorious for changeing their mounts, I work backwards and find lenses that fit your XL-1 and than find a 35mmSLR that they fit. That way you'll be safe.

Plus, I wouldn't put a Nikon lens on a Canon or a Canon lens on a Nikon, no matter what kind of retro fit set-up is availabe.

Pro 35mm SLR users are like people who own pick-up trucks... Fanatics! If you don't believe me, look at the owners of Ford, Cheveys, or Dodges who get those big decals and put them all over their truck, what do the decals say ...FORD, CHEVY, DODGE . Dah!

If you want to get into white lenses vs. black lenses it's all BS , promotion and politics.
Bruce

Jeff Donald · August 26th, 2002, 10:49 AM

Canon is not so notorious for changing lens mounts. The manual focus mount was changed once. The AF mount has never changed, which is more than Nikon can say. They had to make D series to add features Canon already had built in. Nikon has changed the bodies on the N-65 and N-80 so that the older MF lenses won't fit. Nikon is no better or worse than Canon. My point about the white lenses was to illustrate that more pros now shoot AF Canon than AF Nikon. However, the new Nikon D100 will make big in roads in Canon's pro market share if the D60s don't start shipping in quanities soon.

Jeff

Adrian Douglas · August 27th, 2002, 12:48 AM

From the looks of the D60 specs I don't think it's all that crash hot a camera. Sure it has a huge pixel count but the rest of the camer just doesn't have what it takes to cut it as a Pro camera.

1. The mag factor is still 1.6 - Even with a 16-35 WA lens it's still only a 26mm lens.

2. It only has 3 point auto focus - They should have given it at least 5, or why not the 32 point found on the EOS3.

3. It's buffer/burst rates are too low for anything ohter than still/portraits. Sequential action shooting is out.

They need to fit something in between the D60 and the D1, just like Nikon have.

Dylan Couper · August 28th, 2002, 11:29 PM

Elan 7 first impressions.
Wow, what a difference between the Elan 7 and my old Pentax. (not all good, but mostly)
The continuous mode is great. I was taking test photos with it and forgot I left it in that mode and sqeezed off 4 shots before I realized it was still on. Won't do that again. It'll get expensive.

I'm plowing through the instruction manual, and realizing my knowledge of the physics of still photography is pitiful. I think it's much more difficult than taking video with an XL1 where you have more of a WYSIWYG type setup.

The one thing I can't stand and will have to get used to, is certain camera modes won't let you take a picture unless certain conditions are met. This peeves me. When I hit that button, I want to hear a click. I'd rather have an underexposed or out of focus shot of the perfect moment, rather than nothing at all.

Oh, these Sigma lenses are noisy and IMHO slow to focus. Of course, I'm judging them against a $1000 canon XL1 lens, which isn't really fair. I will be testing out some Canon EF USM lenses for a comparison, and will probably replace the Sigma ones. Any suggestions which to get for a good range? 28-105 and 75-300?
Price is an issue.

Thanks!

Jeff Donald · August 29th, 2002, 05:47 AM

The Elan 7 has 2 types of shooting modes. The Image or Icon based modes and the Creative modes. The Image modes will require certain conditions be met before the shutter will release. The Creative modes (P, A, S, M) will release the shutter when the button is fully depressed. For sports you'll want to start using the S (shutter priority) and for just about everything else A (aperature priority). If I'm just out for the enjoyment I set it to P so I can concentrate more on the composition of the shot. The 28-105 is a very good choice as is the 28-135 IS if you've got the extra money. Canon makes three lenses in the 70-300 range. The USM is on the two more expensive lenses. The top dog has IS also.

Jeff

Dylan Couper · September 1st, 2002, 07:35 PM

OK, I've now finished off the manual. It turns out I had it set in "One Shot" mode which wont allow the picture to be taken unless the AF has found a focus point. That was the problem.

It looks like I'll be getting the 75-300USM lens. As far as a wide lens goes, I'd like to get something wider than a 28-... I think I saw a 20-55mm, which would certainly rock, but it was pretty expensive.

I found another interesting problem. The camera will not operate properly in Continous mode using the Sigma 28-105 lens. It will only take one shot at a time. I've gone through the manual and through every mode and it's the same. This must be a flaw with the lens, I guess?

Jeff Donald · September 1st, 2002, 08:39 PM

Sigma is the only major mfg. that doesn't buy their chips from Canon. When Canon upgrade the performance in the Elan 7 (from the Elan II) the Sigma lenses (Ritz house brand Quantaray, also) wouldn't work right. The wide angle lenses you might be interested in are the 22-55mm (OK lens, not too expensive), 24-85mm (good lens), 20-35mm (good lens, fairly expensive) and the 16-35mm (BIGGG, bucks).

Jeff

August 27th, 2002, 12:48 AM	#20
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	From the looks of the D60 specs I don't think it's all that crash hot a camera. Sure it has a huge pixel count but the rest of the camer just doesn't have what it takes to cut it as a Pro camera. 1. The mag factor is still 1.6 - Even with a 16-35 WA lens it's still only a 26mm lens. 2. It only has 3 point auto focus - They should have given it at least 5, or why not the 32 point found on the EOS3. 3. It's buffer/burst rates are too low for anything ohter than still/portraits. Sequential action shooting is out. They need to fit something in between the D60 and the D1, just like Nikon have. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

August 25th, 2002, 10:44 AM	#16
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Eye control is not discontinued (at least in the US). The EOS 3 has 45 eye control focus points. The Elan 7e has 7 eye control points, corresponding to the 7 focus points. I have both an EOS 3 and Elan 7e and use eye control all the time. It took about two weeks to get my brain to think in terms of eye control. But once it started thinking eye control it changed the way I take pictures. But I admit, its one of those, you either love it or hate it features. If you can get the Elan 7 fine, my concern is that the 28-200 may not do what you need it to do. Can you elaborate a little more on what you hope to shoot? Worse case is you sell the 28-200 on ebay and get what meets your needs the best. Jeff

August 25th, 2002, 07:52 PM	#17
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Jeff, I was thinking the same thing you were in that I could sell the 28-200 lens that comes with it and just buy another. I'll be doing mostly action sports, hockey, snowboarding, paintball, as well as portrait photography BTW. I decided to go with the one on Ebay since I can pick it up in person and it's a good enough price that if I change my mind, I can put it for sale in the local classified ads and get my money back. I ended up winning the auction for just under $500us, which is about the same price as a new Elan 7 body and a 28-90 lens would cost, before tax. I figure the total new price after tax would have been $900 or so, so I saved a bit of coin. Anyhoo, I'll let you guys know how it works when I pick it up. Thanks for the advice!

August 25th, 2002, 08:52 PM	#18
B. Moore Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 181	Hi, I like Nikons, but to me it seems personal taste. If I were you, I'd get a Canon so you may get multiple uses out of your lenses. My only word of caution, due to the fact canon is notorious for changeing their mounts, I work backwards and find lenses that fit your XL-1 and than find a 35mmSLR that they fit. That way you'll be safe. Plus, I wouldn't put a Nikon lens on a Canon or a Canon lens on a Nikon, no matter what kind of retro fit set-up is availabe. Pro 35mm SLR users are like people who own pick-up trucks... Fanatics! If you don't believe me, look at the owners of Ford, Cheveys, or Dodges who get those big decals and put them all over their truck, what do the decals say ...FORD, CHEVY, DODGE . Dah! If you want to get into white lenses vs. black lenses it's all BS , promotion and politics. Bruce

August 26th, 2002, 10:49 AM	#19
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Canon is not so notorious for changing lens mounts. The manual focus mount was changed once. The AF mount has never changed, which is more than Nikon can say. They had to make D series to add features Canon already had built in. Nikon has changed the bodies on the N-65 and N-80 so that the older MF lenses won't fit. Nikon is no better or worse than Canon. My point about the white lenses was to illustrate that more pros now shoot AF Canon than AF Nikon. However, the new Nikon D100 will make big in roads in Canon's pro market share if the D60s don't start shipping in quanities soon. Jeff

August 28th, 2002, 11:29 PM	#21
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Elan 7 first impressions. Wow, what a difference between the Elan 7 and my old Pentax. (not all good, but mostly) The continuous mode is great. I was taking test photos with it and forgot I left it in that mode and sqeezed off 4 shots before I realized it was still on. Won't do that again. It'll get expensive. I'm plowing through the instruction manual, and realizing my knowledge of the physics of still photography is pitiful. I think it's much more difficult than taking video with an XL1 where you have more of a WYSIWYG type setup. The one thing I can't stand and will have to get used to, is certain camera modes won't let you take a picture unless certain conditions are met. This peeves me. When I hit that button, I want to hear a click. I'd rather have an underexposed or out of focus shot of the perfect moment, rather than nothing at all. Oh, these Sigma lenses are noisy and IMHO slow to focus. Of course, I'm judging them against a $1000 canon XL1 lens, which isn't really fair. I will be testing out some Canon EF USM lenses for a comparison, and will probably replace the Sigma ones. Any suggestions which to get for a good range? 28-105 and 75-300? Price is an issue. Thanks!

August 29th, 2002, 05:47 AM	#22
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The Elan 7 has 2 types of shooting modes. The Image or Icon based modes and the Creative modes. The Image modes will require certain conditions be met before the shutter will release. The Creative modes (P, A, S, M) will release the shutter when the button is fully depressed. For sports you'll want to start using the S (shutter priority) and for just about everything else A (aperature priority). If I'm just out for the enjoyment I set it to P so I can concentrate more on the composition of the shot. The 28-105 is a very good choice as is the 28-135 IS if you've got the extra money. Canon makes three lenses in the 70-300 range. The USM is on the two more expensive lenses. The top dog has IS also. Jeff

September 1st, 2002, 07:35 PM	#23
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	OK, I've now finished off the manual. It turns out I had it set in "One Shot" mode which wont allow the picture to be taken unless the AF has found a focus point. That was the problem. It looks like I'll be getting the 75-300USM lens. As far as a wide lens goes, I'd like to get something wider than a 28-... I think I saw a 20-55mm, which would certainly rock, but it was pretty expensive. I found another interesting problem. The camera will not operate properly in Continous mode using the Sigma 28-105 lens. It will only take one shot at a time. I've gone through the manual and through every mode and it's the same. This must be a flaw with the lens, I guess?

September 1st, 2002, 08:39 PM	#24
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Sigma is the only major mfg. that doesn't buy their chips from Canon. When Canon upgrade the performance in the Elan 7 (from the Elan II) the Sigma lenses (Ritz house brand Quantaray, also) wouldn't work right. The wide angle lenses you might be interested in are the 22-55mm (OK lens, not too expensive), 24-85mm (good lens), 20-35mm (good lens, fairly expensive) and the 16-35mm (BIGGG, bucks). Jeff