NEW Digital Rebel announced. US price . . .

Dylan Couper · October 1st, 2003, 04:42 PM

Interesting opinion Alex.
What features specificaly would you suggest the 10d has that the Digital Rebel lacks, that a person would want to spend $1000cdn more to have?

Imran Zaidi · October 1st, 2003, 05:16 PM

I've been a long time fan of Canon's 'Rebel' line of products because it's a great way to get much more expensive capabilities at a lower price. Yes, they're less durable than the upper line of products, but unless you mishandle it, this is never an issue. My current Rebel has been with me for a few years, and I've used it a lot, traveled with it a lot, and it is still in pristine condition.

$899 US is an amazing deal for a camera that, with some limited features and a 'less durable' body, can take pictures of equal quality as a $1499 camera.

In my book, that's a great deal.

Alex Ratson · October 2nd, 2003, 07:32 PM

The main advantages of the 10D over its little plastic sibling are as follows:

17 customizable settings on 10D none on Rebel
9 frame buffer size of 10D only 4 frames on Rebel
10D allows flash compensation
10D has PC link socket
You can turn off the annoying AF assistant light off on the 10D
Mirror lock-up on 10D
10D has better ergonomics
More durable
Looks like a real SLR

At Vistek there is only $700 Canadian between the two.

Hope this helps
Alex

Gints Klimanis · October 3rd, 2003, 12:35 AM

I can't believe these cameras don't have a movie mode ! Awwwwwwww. Come on !!!!! Do I have to lug around my
cheapie Canon S40, too? I just want to get sports action shots
of better than video resolution by picking them out of 1-10 seconds of footage, with a sub-second response time from the
button press. Is there nothing that can do this?

Jeff Donald · October 3rd, 2003, 04:43 AM

Basically, no. Even the high-end DSLR's do not have the data throughput to capture high resolution images at 30 frames per second. They could of course lower the resolution to 640x480 and get 30 frames per second, but not to CF cards. The Canon 1D does 8 frames per second. The new Nikon D2H does the same. The 1D's rumored replacement may do a little faster, but will require a pellicle mirror. If you want moving pictures with sound your stuck with your video camera.

Imran Zaidi · October 3rd, 2003, 07:07 AM

The Digital Rebel sure does look like a 'Real SLR'. Also, that Vistek.com site is waaaaay overpriced for the Digital Rebel. I think with the CAD to USD conversion it's over $1100 US for just the body. It's only $899 US for the body at this site's sponsor, BHPhoto.com.

Jeff Price · October 16th, 2003, 02:12 PM

Missed Jeff's original posting but having played with one of these caneras for a few days I can give some hands on opinion.

Whether you need a 10D or this camera will do depends on your needs (and how hard you will be on the camera). For our needs the D300 is fine and the $500 price difference went to lenses. Sure, if you drop this camera it's toast but I haven't dropped optics in many years. If you are going to a really remote area or are a little harder on your gear then the 10D might be a better choice.

As for the shooting speed (3fps versus 9) it depends on how often you use your camera as a motordrive. If something is moving that much I think I'd have my GL2 on it instead :) You may be able to get around the limitation to some extent by buying faster cards.

Macworld claims the D300 can't use the 'L' series lenses. I don't know where they got that information as it isn't mentioned in the owner's manuals or in the sales brochures. Tirque and weight are certainly things to think about though and more care might need be taken. Then again, if you can afford an L series lens then you'd probably be looking at one of the other digital SLRs.

All in all it takes GREAT pictures. I certainly think it is preferable to any point and shoot in its price range.

As for ergonomics - it all depends on your hand size. My wife can easily use the D300, but didn't like the larger 10D. It's her camera so her choice. She has been a photographer for more than a decade and her mom has been a contest winning pro and they see nothing wrong with the camera. You get what you pay for and the few limitations of the D300 were not that serious for THEIR uses.

Jeff Donald · October 16th, 2003, 02:29 PM

The Macworld article is wrong. Canon L series lenses pose no problem. The 3 frame vs. 9 frame limitation refers to the memory buffer size. The 10D will allow 9 shots to be taken (at roughly 3fps) before the camera has to pause and write the data to the CF card. The Digital Rebel can only take 3 shots (3fps) before it has to stop and write the data to the CF card. In other words the 10D has a larger internal buffer for writing data.

I have rarely filled the 9 shot buffer on my 10D. However, the 3 shot limit would pose a considerable limitation on by wildlife work. In particular, the flight shots of birds I do. In most cases I'll take a sequence of 6 to 8 shots. The 3 shot limit would pose a severe limit to some of my work. I could also see this being a limitation to sports and fashion photographers as well.

Gints Klimanis · October 16th, 2003, 02:55 PM

Jeff,

It sounds like you and I are looking for equipment that capture short bursts of good resolution photos of moving subjects so that we can extract the best shot. That's why I was interested in a highly portable camcorder that responds quickly to the Record button press. Some of the near-future CF cards and Microdriveswill do 6 MBytes/sec sustained writes, so parallel cards may enable high resolution, short duration video.

Jeff Price · October 20th, 2003, 01:58 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : D-30 will have to drop in price. This is basically a 10D, in a little different outer plastic. It probably doesn't have a metal inner frame, either

It does have the same internal metal frame and stainless steel lens mount of the 10D. The difference is the 'skin' of the 10D is magnesium and that of the 300D is polycarbonate plastic.

Frank Granovski · October 20th, 2003, 03:17 PM

Which new Canon model has the titanium casing? I've heard this, but I'm not sure if this is true or not. Just wondering.

Bill Ravens · October 20th, 2003, 03:22 PM

10D

Frank Granovski · October 22nd, 2003, 12:56 AM

Thanks, Bill. I prefer titanium cams. Too bad Leica only uses brass. :(

Mike Butler · October 28th, 2003, 07:45 PM

Got the 10D back in May, and love it. It feels like a "real" camera. I'm sure the Rebel is fine for most photo hobbyists, but somehow I got a hunch I'll be glad I paid the extra for the magnesium frame and rubber skin over the plastic body, to say nothing of the other features. As for the 9-shot buffer, that can be a real advantage if you're firing off a bunch of shots at an event or something. Even the cheapest 35mm Rebel doesn't stop after 4 frames to save (of course it will stop at 24 or 36 frames and you reload film). Actually even a 9-frame buffer is a little if you are going to shoot any kind of athletic events--I'm sure the motor drive was invented for football and basketball photographers.

So you see, it's not just about megapixels...for that matter, my little bitty Powershot S400 has more of those than the D30, but I would certainly feel better about going out to shoot a photo opp with the SLR.

Going in the other direction on lenses, I have been able to"borrow" lenses off my wife's old Rebel to use on the 10D.

BTW, I also looked at the Nikon and it seemed very nice. But of course, when you already own accessories of a certain brand, the ability to carry them over to the new camera of the same brand can be a deciding factor.

Tommy Haupfear · November 6th, 2003, 10:47 AM

I returned the Digital Rebel for the 10D.

At first I didn't think the plastic body and dumbed down feature set would bother me for the $600 I saved. I was wrong. The rattling noise when the flash was closed was enough to drive me mad.

I'm using the 28-135mm IS USM Canon lens.

October 1st, 2003, 04:42 PM	#16
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Interesting opinion Alex. What features specificaly would you suggest the 10d has that the Digital Rebel lacks, that a person would want to spend $1000cdn more to have? __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

October 3rd, 2003, 04:43 AM	#20
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Basically, no. Even the high-end DSLR's do not have the data throughput to capture high resolution images at 30 frames per second. They could of course lower the resolution to 640x480 and get 30 frames per second, but not to CF cards. The Canon 1D does 8 frames per second. The new Nikon D2H does the same. The 1D's rumored replacement may do a little faster, but will require a pellicle mirror. If you want moving pictures with sound your stuck with your video camera. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 16th, 2003, 02:12 PM	#22
Jeff Price Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chico, California Posts: 357	Missed Jeff's original posting but having played with one of these caneras for a few days I can give some hands on opinion. Whether you need a 10D or this camera will do depends on your needs (and how hard you will be on the camera). For our needs the D300 is fine and the $500 price difference went to lenses. Sure, if you drop this camera it's toast but I haven't dropped optics in many years. If you are going to a really remote area or are a little harder on your gear then the 10D might be a better choice. As for the shooting speed (3fps versus 9) it depends on how often you use your camera as a motordrive. If something is moving that much I think I'd have my GL2 on it instead :) You may be able to get around the limitation to some extent by buying faster cards. Macworld claims the D300 can't use the 'L' series lenses. I don't know where they got that information as it isn't mentioned in the owner's manuals or in the sales brochures. Tirque and weight are certainly things to think about though and more care might need be taken. Then again, if you can afford an L series lens then you'd probably be looking at one of the other digital SLRs. All in all it takes GREAT pictures. I certainly think it is preferable to any point and shoot in its price range. As for ergonomics - it all depends on your hand size. My wife can easily use the D300, but didn't like the larger 10D. It's her camera so her choice. She has been a photographer for more than a decade and her mom has been a contest winning pro and they see nothing wrong with the camera. You get what you pay for and the few limitations of the D300 were not that serious for THEIR uses. __________________ Jeff Price Flickerflix Nature Videos flickerflix@yahoo.com

October 16th, 2003, 02:29 PM	#23
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The Macworld article is wrong. Canon L series lenses pose no problem. The 3 frame vs. 9 frame limitation refers to the memory buffer size. The 10D will allow 9 shots to be taken (at roughly 3fps) before the camera has to pause and write the data to the CF card. The Digital Rebel can only take 3 shots (3fps) before it has to stop and write the data to the CF card. In other words the 10D has a larger internal buffer for writing data. I have rarely filled the 9 shot buffer on my 10D. However, the 3 shot limit would pose a considerable limitation on by wildlife work. In particular, the flight shots of birds I do. In most cases I'll take a sequence of 6 to 8 shots. The 3 shot limit would pose a severe limit to some of my work. I could also see this being a limitation to sports and fashion photographers as well. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 20th, 2003, 01:58 PM	#25
Jeff Price Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chico, California Posts: 357	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : D-30 will have to drop in price. This is basically a 10D, in a little different outer plastic. It probably doesn't have a metal inner frame, either It does have the same internal metal frame and stainless steel lens mount of the 10D. The difference is the 'skin' of the 10D is magnesium and that of the 300D is polycarbonate plastic. __________________ Jeff Price Flickerflix Nature Videos flickerflix@yahoo.com

October 1st, 2003, 05:16 PM	#17
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	I've been a long time fan of Canon's 'Rebel' line of products because it's a great way to get much more expensive capabilities at a lower price. Yes, they're less durable than the upper line of products, but unless you mishandle it, this is never an issue. My current Rebel has been with me for a few years, and I've used it a lot, traveled with it a lot, and it is still in pristine condition. $899 US is an amazing deal for a camera that, with some limited features and a 'less durable' body, can take pictures of equal quality as a $1499 camera. In my book, that's a great deal.

October 2nd, 2003, 07:32 PM	#18
Alex Ratson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Squamish, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 149	The main advantages of the 10D over its little plastic sibling are as follows: 17 customizable settings on 10D none on Rebel 9 frame buffer size of 10D only 4 frames on Rebel 10D allows flash compensation 10D has PC link socket You can turn off the annoying AF assistant light off on the 10D Mirror lock-up on 10D 10D has better ergonomics More durable Looks like a real SLR At Vistek there is only $700 Canadian between the two. Hope this helps Alex

October 3rd, 2003, 12:35 AM	#19
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	I can't believe these cameras don't have a movie mode ! Awwwwwwww. Come on !!!!! Do I have to lug around my cheapie Canon S40, too? I just want to get sports action shots of better than video resolution by picking them out of 1-10 seconds of footage, with a sub-second response time from the button press. Is there nothing that can do this?

October 3rd, 2003, 07:07 AM	#21
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	The Digital Rebel sure does look like a 'Real SLR'. Also, that Vistek.com site is waaaaay overpriced for the Digital Rebel. I think with the CAD to USD conversion it's over $1100 US for just the body. It's only $899 US for the body at this site's sponsor, BHPhoto.com.

October 16th, 2003, 02:55 PM	#24
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Jeff, It sounds like you and I are looking for equipment that capture short bursts of good resolution photos of moving subjects so that we can extract the best shot. That's why I was interested in a highly portable camcorder that responds quickly to the Record button press. Some of the near-future CF cards and Microdriveswill do 6 MBytes/sec sustained writes, so parallel cards may enable high resolution, short duration video.

October 20th, 2003, 03:17 PM	#26
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Which new Canon model has the titanium casing? I've heard this, but I'm not sure if this is true or not. Just wondering.

October 20th, 2003, 03:22 PM	#27
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	10D

October 22nd, 2003, 12:56 AM	#28
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Thanks, Bill. I prefer titanium cams. Too bad Leica only uses brass. :(

October 28th, 2003, 07:45 PM	#29
Mike Butler Machinist Mate Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 644	Got the 10D back in May, and love it. It feels like a "real" camera. I'm sure the Rebel is fine for most photo hobbyists, but somehow I got a hunch I'll be glad I paid the extra for the magnesium frame and rubber skin over the plastic body, to say nothing of the other features. As for the 9-shot buffer, that can be a real advantage if you're firing off a bunch of shots at an event or something. Even the cheapest 35mm Rebel doesn't stop after 4 frames to save (of course it will stop at 24 or 36 frames and you reload film). Actually even a 9-frame buffer is a little if you are going to shoot any kind of athletic events--I'm sure the motor drive was invented for football and basketball photographers. So you see, it's not just about megapixels...for that matter, my little bitty Powershot S400 has more of those than the D30, but I would certainly feel better about going out to shoot a photo opp with the SLR. Going in the other direction on lenses, I have been able to"borrow" lenses off my wife's old Rebel to use on the 10D. BTW, I also looked at the Nikon and it seemed very nice. But of course, when you already own accessories of a certain brand, the ability to carry them over to the new camera of the same brand can be a deciding factor. __________________ I ain't straight outta Compton, I'm straight out the trailer. Cuss like a sailor, drink like a Mc. My only words of wisdom are just, "Radio Edit."

November 6th, 2003, 10:47 AM	#30
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	I returned the Digital Rebel for the 10D. At first I didn't think the plastic body and dumbed down feature set would bother me for the $600 I saved. I was wrong. The rattling noise when the flash was closed was enough to drive me mad. I'm using the 28-135mm IS USM Canon lens.