Best digital STILL cameras?

Steven Digges · July 21st, 2003, 02:55 PM

John,

I can offer you this:

1. Canon D30 – Recently serviced by Canon for calibration and cleaning.
2. One battery and one 128 Meg CF Card
3. All of the software, cables, charger etc. that came with it
4. Sigma 17-35mm f2.8-4 zoom lens
5. Tamron 24-135mm f3.5-5.6

I’ll sell the package for $1,200.00 – I wont sell pieces of it.

As a fellow board member my official advice to you would be to buy Canon L series lenses. I have many of them – I am also a professional shooter and have to pay $1,500.00 for the best glass available.

I have this stuff sitting around because I used it on jobs were two of my assistants and I would have to split up and cover 3 groups at the same time.

If you don’t need the latest in Pro gear this might be a package that will get you started.

Steve

You can see my photos at www.corporateshow.com click on the photo gallery.

Jeff Donald · July 21st, 2003, 03:10 PM

The aperture of the lens is as stated, and does not change in relationship to the size of the imaging chip. I've tested the metering system in the 10D vs. EOS 3, Elan 7e and hand held meter. The meter readings were all in agreement.

Bill Ravens · July 21st, 2003, 03:36 PM

Buried in the Canon lens documentation is a statement to the effect that indicated f/stop settings will vary by 1.25x for digital format cameras. I don't have the documentation in front of me or I'd quote, verbatim.

I'm still learning my Canon 10D, however, at the maximum specified aperture of f3.5 for my 28-135 Zoom UHM/IS lens, my 10D shows an f-stop reading of f/4.0. I've tried manually setting the CLAP wide open and can't get above 4.0.

Craig Jones · July 21st, 2003, 04:12 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : FWIW...a small thing to remember is that the advertised f-stop setting on canon lenses applies to 35mm cameras. With a slightly smaller CMOS than 35mm, there's an aparently smaller lens aperture. For example, the 28-135 f/3.5 is really an f/4.0 -->>>

Please explain this.

Jeff Donald · July 21st, 2003, 04:15 PM

Change the custom function (CF 6) to read out in 1/3 stops. That lens is also a variable aperture lens, F3.5 at 28mm and F5.6 at 135mm. The F number is derived by dividing the focal length by the physical diameter of the opening. For example a 100mm lens with a 50mm diameter opening is an F2 lens. Target size (CCD etc.) does not effect the maximum aperture (nor does effective focal length of the lens).

Craig Jones · July 21st, 2003, 04:19 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Change the custom function (CF 6) to read out in 1/3 stops. That lens is also a variable aperture lens, F3.5 at 28mm and F5.6 at 135mm. The F number is derived by dividing the focal length by the physical diameter of the opening. For example a 100mm lens with a 50mm diameter opening is an F2 lens. Target size (CCD etc.) does not effect the maximum aperture (nor does effective focal length of the lens). -->>>

Exactly. The "focal length multiplier" is a misnomer and has no effect on the f-number.

Bill Ravens · July 21st, 2003, 04:48 PM

yes, <kicking ground> of course, you're right...duh...thanx.

John Garcia · July 23rd, 2003, 11:13 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Digges : John,

I can offer you this:

1. Canon D30 – Recently serviced by Canon for calibration and cleaning.
2. One battery and one 128 Meg CF Card
3. All of the software, cables, charger etc. that came with it
4. Sigma 17-35mm f2.8-4 zoom lens
5. Tamron 24-135mm f3.5-5.6

I’ll sell the package for $1,200.00 – I wont sell pieces of it.

As a fellow board member my official advice to you would be to buy Canon L series lenses. I have many of them – I am also a professional shooter and have to pay $1,500.00 for the best glass available.

I have this stuff sitting around because I used it on jobs were two of my assistants and I would have to split up and cover 3 groups at the same time.

If you don’t need the latest in Pro gear this might be a package that will get you started.

Steve

You can see my photos at www.corporateshow.com click on the photo gallery. -->>>

hey Steve,

wow, that sounds like a pretty nice package. I checked out the D30, and the image quality wasnt too bad. It was pretty awesome for a 3.xmp camera.

I want everyones opinion. Should I buy something like the package stated above? Or should I save up a few hundred more, and get the 10D?

Hmm...thanks in advance...

Jacques Mersereau · July 23rd, 2003, 11:37 AM

Sounds like a pretty nice package at a decent price.

You can expect to pay around $3300 by the time you get a new 10D,
extra battery, decent sized flash card (or two) and at least one
good L series lens.

Remember, you get what you pay for . . . the 10D will impress and
be a good prosumer camera for the next year or two,
and if you take care of it, worth something when you go to upgrade.

(Personally, I'd pony . . . and DID! :)

Jeff Donald · July 23rd, 2003, 12:02 PM

The 6 mega pixel cameras are keepers, meaning unless you want to do huge prints you don't need to upgrade. I have shot with several non L lenses and I think you can be very happy with a 10D and the 28-135mm IS lens or the 24-85mm or a prime lens.

Steven's package is a great value but you might feel limited by the D30 after a year or so. It has about half the resolution of the D60/10D.

Bill Ravens · July 23rd, 2003, 01:32 PM

I'm using the 28-135mm IS lens, and let me tell you, it's one TERRIFIC lens.

Steven Digges · July 23rd, 2003, 04:05 PM

Maybe I should actually TRY to sell this camera while I still can, I have 2 of them, it wasn’t even for sale until I offered it to John here. If I keep it for too long it will end up in my pile of “other old stuff” like a Tascam 4 track cassette Porta-Studio. That would be a shame because it is a great camera.

Buying digital cameras is just like buying a computer. How much can you spend and what are you going to use it for? We all know a guy that owns a PC with a P4 @ 3GHZ, 512Ram and a 120 Gig HD – What does he do with it? Checks his e-mail on AOL and types letters in Word. How much money did he leave at the store?

Jeff is right about the 6 mega pixel cameras being keepers. They have finally reached a resolution that will no longer result in dramatic improvements every 12 months. It’s just not necessary, more than that is like checking e-mail on AOL with the hot PC.

In case anyone is interested here is a little more on the D30. It will make great prints up to 8x10 (or 8 ½ x 11)– the fine/.jpg setting resuts in a 8x10 with 180 pixels/inch in Photo Shop. The rule of thumb for ink jet printing is 250 pixels/inch will render maximum quality from most prosumer ink jets. At 180 these prints look fantastic coming out of my Canon S9000. They are photo quality. If your not going to make prints bigger than that you will be happy. The real secret to ink jet printing is in the paper anyway.

It is a nice camera, the package I offered John will make a serious amateur very happy. Hey, for that matter, anyone want a Tascam Porta Studio? I could probably still find it in my shed.

Personally, I miss the days when I carried around a bag full of Nikon F3s. They were bullet proof, they worked at 30 below zero, you only put batteries in the motor drive, and your investment was good for many years.

I hope Chris gives us a place to keep this going.

Steve

Michael Struthers · July 23rd, 2003, 05:52 PM

Sigma D9 now 999.00...

For the last week or two, I have been researching digital still cameras for a project where I would like to blow something up very large...this forum has been most helpful...

Hey guys, what do I use if I want wall-size photos? ;-) I would be modifying them on a pc, saving as TIff and taking them to a printer....any suggestions?

Michael

Michael Struthers · July 23rd, 2003, 06:12 PM

hmmm I was reserching genuine fractals software...it seems to save images in a "lossless" .stn format...do outside printers take an .stn format??

M

Matt Betea · July 23rd, 2003, 07:10 PM

I'm not really fond of Genuine Fractals. For me on Win2000 I found the software buggy (crashing Photoshop) and the results weren't all that better than taking some time in PS and interpolating yourself. For $160 dollars, I would rather save $145 and buy Fred Miranda's SI action. But if I was set on spending that much money, I would look at Extensis's SmartScale. Heard real good things about that and I just downloaded the demo.

July 21st, 2003, 02:55 PM	#91
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	John, I can offer you this: 1. Canon D30 – Recently serviced by Canon for calibration and cleaning. 2. One battery and one 128 Meg CF Card 3. All of the software, cables, charger etc. that came with it 4. Sigma 17-35mm f2.8-4 zoom lens 5. Tamron 24-135mm f3.5-5.6 I’ll sell the package for $1,200.00 – I wont sell pieces of it. As a fellow board member my official advice to you would be to buy Canon L series lenses. I have many of them – I am also a professional shooter and have to pay $1,500.00 for the best glass available. I have this stuff sitting around because I used it on jobs were two of my assistants and I would have to split up and cover 3 groups at the same time. If you don’t need the latest in Pro gear this might be a package that will get you started. Steve You can see my photos at www.corporateshow.com click on the photo gallery. __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

July 21st, 2003, 03:10 PM	#92
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The aperture of the lens is as stated, and does not change in relationship to the size of the imaging chip. I've tested the metering system in the 10D vs. EOS 3, Elan 7e and hand held meter. The meter readings were all in agreement. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 21st, 2003, 04:15 PM	#95
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Change the custom function (CF 6) to read out in 1/3 stops. That lens is also a variable aperture lens, F3.5 at 28mm and F5.6 at 135mm. The F number is derived by dividing the focal length by the physical diameter of the opening. For example a 100mm lens with a 50mm diameter opening is an F2 lens. Target size (CCD etc.) does not effect the maximum aperture (nor does effective focal length of the lens). __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 23rd, 2003, 11:13 AM	#98
John Garcia Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 199	<<<-- Originally posted by Steven Digges : John, I can offer you this: 1. Canon D30 – Recently serviced by Canon for calibration and cleaning. 2. One battery and one 128 Meg CF Card 3. All of the software, cables, charger etc. that came with it 4. Sigma 17-35mm f2.8-4 zoom lens 5. Tamron 24-135mm f3.5-5.6 I’ll sell the package for $1,200.00 – I wont sell pieces of it. As a fellow board member my official advice to you would be to buy Canon L series lenses. I have many of them – I am also a professional shooter and have to pay $1,500.00 for the best glass available. I have this stuff sitting around because I used it on jobs were two of my assistants and I would have to split up and cover 3 groups at the same time. If you don’t need the latest in Pro gear this might be a package that will get you started. Steve You can see my photos at www.corporateshow.com click on the photo gallery. -->>> hey Steve, wow, that sounds like a pretty nice package. I checked out the D30, and the image quality wasnt too bad. It was pretty awesome for a 3.xmp camera. I want everyones opinion. Should I buy something like the package stated above? Or should I save up a few hundred more, and get the 10D? Hmm...thanks in advance... __________________ John Garcia

July 23rd, 2003, 11:37 AM	#99
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Sounds like a pretty nice package at a decent price. You can expect to pay around $3300 by the time you get a new 10D, extra battery, decent sized flash card (or two) and at least one good L series lens. Remember, you get what you pay for . . . the 10D will impress and be a good prosumer camera for the next year or two, and if you take care of it, worth something when you go to upgrade. (Personally, I'd pony . . . and DID! :) __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

July 21st, 2003, 03:36 PM	#93
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Buried in the Canon lens documentation is a statement to the effect that indicated f/stop settings will vary by 1.25x for digital format cameras. I don't have the documentation in front of me or I'd quote, verbatim. I'm still learning my Canon 10D, however, at the maximum specified aperture of f3.5 for my 28-135 Zoom UHM/IS lens, my 10D shows an f-stop reading of f/4.0. I've tried manually setting the CLAP wide open and can't get above 4.0.

July 21st, 2003, 04:12 PM	#94
Craig Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 105	<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Ravens : FWIW...a small thing to remember is that the advertised f-stop setting on canon lenses applies to 35mm cameras. With a slightly smaller CMOS than 35mm, there's an aparently smaller lens aperture. For example, the 28-135 f/3.5 is really an f/4.0 -->>> Please explain this.

July 21st, 2003, 04:19 PM	#96
Craig Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 105	<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : Change the custom function (CF 6) to read out in 1/3 stops. That lens is also a variable aperture lens, F3.5 at 28mm and F5.6 at 135mm. The F number is derived by dividing the focal length by the physical diameter of the opening. For example a 100mm lens with a 50mm diameter opening is an F2 lens. Target size (CCD etc.) does not effect the maximum aperture (nor does effective focal length of the lens). -->>> Exactly. The "focal length multiplier" is a misnomer and has no effect on the f-number.

July 21st, 2003, 04:48 PM	#97
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	yes, <kicking ground> of course, you're right...duh...thanx.

July 23rd, 2003, 12:02 PM	#100
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The 6 mega pixel cameras are keepers, meaning unless you want to do huge prints you don't need to upgrade. I have shot with several non L lenses and I think you can be very happy with a 10D and the 28-135mm IS lens or the 24-85mm or a prime lens. Steven's package is a great value but you might feel limited by the D30 after a year or so. It has about half the resolution of the D60/10D. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

July 23rd, 2003, 01:32 PM	#101
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I'm using the 28-135mm IS lens, and let me tell you, it's one TERRIFIC lens.

July 23rd, 2003, 04:05 PM	#102
Steven Digges Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,828	Maybe I should actually TRY to sell this camera while I still can, I have 2 of them, it wasn’t even for sale until I offered it to John here. If I keep it for too long it will end up in my pile of “other old stuff” like a Tascam 4 track cassette Porta-Studio. That would be a shame because it is a great camera. Buying digital cameras is just like buying a computer. How much can you spend and what are you going to use it for? We all know a guy that owns a PC with a P4 @ 3GHZ, 512Ram and a 120 Gig HD – What does he do with it? Checks his e-mail on AOL and types letters in Word. How much money did he leave at the store? Jeff is right about the 6 mega pixel cameras being keepers. They have finally reached a resolution that will no longer result in dramatic improvements every 12 months. It’s just not necessary, more than that is like checking e-mail on AOL with the hot PC. In case anyone is interested here is a little more on the D30. It will make great prints up to 8x10 (or 8 ½ x 11)– the fine/.jpg setting resuts in a 8x10 with 180 pixels/inch in Photo Shop. The rule of thumb for ink jet printing is 250 pixels/inch will render maximum quality from most prosumer ink jets. At 180 these prints look fantastic coming out of my Canon S9000. They are photo quality. If your not going to make prints bigger than that you will be happy. The real secret to ink jet printing is in the paper anyway. It is a nice camera, the package I offered John will make a serious amateur very happy. Hey, for that matter, anyone want a Tascam Porta Studio? I could probably still find it in my shed. Personally, I miss the days when I carried around a bag full of Nikon F3s. They were bullet proof, they worked at 30 below zero, you only put batteries in the motor drive, and your investment was good for many years. I hope Chris gives us a place to keep this going. Steve __________________ www.CorporateShow.com Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!

July 23rd, 2003, 05:52 PM	#103
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Price drop Sigma D9 now 999.00... For the last week or two, I have been researching digital still cameras for a project where I would like to blow something up very large...this forum has been most helpful... Hey guys, what do I use if I want wall-size photos? ;-) I would be modifying them on a pc, saving as TIff and taking them to a printer....any suggestions? Michael

July 23rd, 2003, 06:12 PM	#104
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	genuine fractals hmmm I was reserching genuine fractals software...it seems to save images in a "lossless" .stn format...do outside printers take an .stn format?? M

July 23rd, 2003, 07:10 PM	#105
Matt Betea Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: detroit, mi Posts: 187	I'm not really fond of Genuine Fractals. For me on Win2000 I found the software buggy (crashing Photoshop) and the results weren't all that better than taking some time in PS and interpolating yourself. For $160 dollars, I would rather save $145 and buy Fred Miranda's SI action. But if I was set on spending that much money, I would look at Extensis's SmartScale. Heard real good things about that and I just downloaded the demo.