Canon XHA1 and XLH1 and steadycam

Peter Chung · July 30th, 2007, 08:07 AM

I believe the SmoothShooter and Indicam are very close price-wise.

B&H has the SmoothShooter for $1449.95 while the Indicam arm and vest is $1475.

The Glidecam 4000 at B&H is $399.95 bringing the SmoothShooter & GC 4000 combo to $1849.90.

The Indicam PILOT arm, vest, & sled will cost you $1950 and you get many more features and benefits, some of which I listed in my previous post.

The Steadicam Pilot's arm and vest (actually called the Merlin arm and vest, which I believe is the same thing... correct me if I'm wrong, Mikko) retails at $1995.

The Steadicam Pilot system with arm, vest, and sled (which includes monitor) is listed for $3750 at tiffen.com.

If you already have a Glidecam 2000, 4000, or other handheld stabilizer, I would go with the Steadicam arm and vest. If not, I would check out Indicam and if budget allows, check out the Steadicam Pilot.

Don't discard Steadicam as they are the innovators and you just can't go wrong with one.

Regarding Indicam, I believe Terry has a pretty generous return policy if you want to try it out.

Also, regarding Charles' reminder that flying cameras is a new skill, you can learn a lot just from searching on this board (particularly from Charles' and Mikko's posts). Terry from Indicam just came out with a new Stabilizer Basics video, which has been getting good reviews. And Charles has plans for his own training video in the works but no details yet as to its release date (he's a very busy man).

You'll notice I mention Indicam a lot and that's because I own one :) Terry has been very helpful and has been great at explaining things and helping me to understand these contraptions better (I believe the more you understand how these things work, the better you can work with your new contraption :)

Anyways, if you'd like to see the variety of shots you can achieve with the Indicam PILOT without having to take time off to set up, rebalance, etc, check out this link. Standard shooting, low mode, high shot all transitioned between shots without holding up the bride or photographer. Every shot was taken with the Indicam... no tripod, monopod, etc. In run and gun situations like I'm in, the features of the Indicam are a boon.

Stephen Eastwood · July 30th, 2007, 08:38 PM

Well the question now becomes, is the steadicam pilot worth waiting for over the smoothshooter or indicam? The steadicam pilot will have a weight limit of 10lbs and cost about 3950 with video or 3750 with a 3 1/2" video screen, while the others are about 1900-2300 without video and weight limits from 10-14lbs

And of those (indicam and smoothshooter) for an XHL1 and radio, firestore/led light need a dual arm indicam or can the smoothshooter or single 10lb arm work? I guess this is only truely answered by someone who has tried out both, or at least tried one at the higher end limits to say how that one handled at the high end of the weight class.

Peter, as for your demo its very well done and smooth, I like it, and funny I just happened to find that trash your dress site the other day from something unrelated. Now as for the tech side of it what camera and equipment, and I ask not from a video sense, but to get a feel for what type of weight you had on the arm and also what arm single or double?

Stephen Eastwood
http://www.StephenEastwood.com

Stephen Eastwood · July 30th, 2007, 09:36 PM

OK so I received an email about another alternative product on the market does anyone know anything about this http://fsprostab.com/english/components/components.htm

It supposedly handles from 6-20lbs.

Charles King · July 30th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Eastwood

OK so I received an email about another alternative product on the market does anyone know anything about this http://fsprostab.com/english/components/components.htm

It supposedly handles from 6-20lbs.

Was it from the owner of the company or customer? You can also look at the links on thier site that host customers that have bought the product and see thier demo.

Stephen Eastwood · July 30th, 2007, 10:56 PM

Owner I believe

Terry Thompson · July 30th, 2007, 11:11 PM

Chris,

Just to jump in and clarify...We do offer a 30 return policy. Just don't "Trash the rig". Get it?

We have also just built a number of double upgraded arms which can fly cameras ranging from 1 pound to around 15 pounds. The total weight the arm can hold is 24-25 pounds taking into account the added weight of the sled and all.

We've tried it out a few times with the max weight and wonder why anyone would want to fly something that heavy. You have to realize that I don't just manufacture the Indicam PILOT, I shoot steadicam shots with it as well. The heaviest cameras we have flown are the Canon XL2, the HVX200, and the Sony Z1U with remote mic. The video is fantastic but we know there are camera operators who like even bigger cameras. More power to you.

Tery
Indicam

P.S. Thanks Peter

Charles Papert · July 30th, 2007, 11:58 PM

My feeling about the heavier end of this class of stabilizer is that the weak link in the chain is the vest, which doesn't provide the type of support necessary to be comfortable with the greater load. Terry, I'd suspect that given a more beefy vest you'd be fine with a heavier camera on board--certainly it's still a substantial weight and you have to get used to it, but more rigidity spreads the weight across more muscle groups.

Chris Klidonas · July 31st, 2007, 12:58 AM

so let me just ask, what is the single vs double upgrade, they all have a double articulated arm and one has two sets of springs?

Is the upgrade just to add stronger springs in the single and two springs in teh double?

Peter Chung · July 31st, 2007, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Eastwood

Peter, as for your demo its very well done and smooth, I like it, and funny I just happened to find that trash your dress site the other day from something unrelated. Now as for the tech side of it what camera and equipment, and I ask not from a video sense, but to get a feel for what type of weight you had on the arm and also what arm single or double?

Stephen, my setup is very light and small to simplify things. For that shoot, I had the Indicam PILOT with single upgraded arms and discreet vest. For some of the shots I used the High Shot accessory as well. The total weight of the sled and camera is about 7.5 pounds. I'm using a Sony HC1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Klidonas

so let me just ask, what is the single vs double upgrade, they all have a double articulated arm and one has two sets of springs?

Is the upgrade just to add stronger springs in the single and two springs in teh double?

They are all double articulated arms. The single and double upgraded allow the arm to carry more weight. I believe the regular arm carries up to 11 pounds, the single upgraded carries up to 14 pounds, and the double upgraded up to 24 pounds.

July 30th, 2007, 08:07 AM	#16
Peter Chung Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 220	I believe the SmoothShooter and Indicam are very close price-wise. B&H has the SmoothShooter for $1449.95 while the Indicam arm and vest is $1475. The Glidecam 4000 at B&H is $399.95 bringing the SmoothShooter & GC 4000 combo to $1849.90. The Indicam PILOT arm, vest, & sled will cost you $1950 and you get many more features and benefits, some of which I listed in my previous post. The Steadicam Pilot's arm and vest (actually called the Merlin arm and vest, which I believe is the same thing... correct me if I'm wrong, Mikko) retails at $1995. The Steadicam Pilot system with arm, vest, and sled (which includes monitor) is listed for $3750 at tiffen.com. If you already have a Glidecam 2000, 4000, or other handheld stabilizer, I would go with the Steadicam arm and vest. If not, I would check out Indicam and if budget allows, check out the Steadicam Pilot. Don't discard Steadicam as they are the innovators and you just can't go wrong with one. Regarding Indicam, I believe Terry has a pretty generous return policy if you want to try it out. Also, regarding Charles' reminder that flying cameras is a new skill, you can learn a lot just from searching on this board (particularly from Charles' and Mikko's posts). Terry from Indicam just came out with a new Stabilizer Basics video, which has been getting good reviews. And Charles has plans for his own training video in the works but no details yet as to its release date (he's a very busy man). You'll notice I mention Indicam a lot and that's because I own one :) Terry has been very helpful and has been great at explaining things and helping me to understand these contraptions better (I believe the more you understand how these things work, the better you can work with your new contraption :) Anyways, if you'd like to see the variety of shots you can achieve with the Indicam PILOT without having to take time off to set up, rebalance, etc, check out this link. Standard shooting, low mode, high shot all transitioned between shots without holding up the bride or photographer. Every shot was taken with the Indicam... no tripod, monopod, etc. In run and gun situations like I'm in, the features of the Indicam are a boon. Last edited by Peter Chung; July 30th, 2007 at 09:08 AM.

July 30th, 2007, 11:11 PM	#21
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Chris, Just to jump in and clarify...We do offer a 30 return policy. Just don't "Trash the rig". Get it? We have also just built a number of double upgraded arms which can fly cameras ranging from 1 pound to around 15 pounds. The total weight the arm can hold is 24-25 pounds taking into account the added weight of the sled and all. We've tried it out a few times with the max weight and wonder why anyone would want to fly something that heavy. You have to realize that I don't just manufacture the Indicam PILOT, I shoot steadicam shots with it as well. The heaviest cameras we have flown are the Canon XL2, the HVX200, and the Sony Z1U with remote mic. The video is fantastic but we know there are camera operators who like even bigger cameras. More power to you. Tery Indicam P.S. Thanks Peter __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

July 30th, 2007, 11:58 PM	#22
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	My feeling about the heavier end of this class of stabilizer is that the weak link in the chain is the vest, which doesn't provide the type of support necessary to be comfortable with the greater load. Terry, I'd suspect that given a more beefy vest you'd be fine with a heavier camera on board--certainly it's still a substantial weight and you have to get used to it, but more rigidity spreads the weight across more muscle groups. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

July 30th, 2007, 08:38 PM	#17
Stephen Eastwood Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Great Neck, NY Posts: 291	Well the question now becomes, is the steadicam pilot worth waiting for over the smoothshooter or indicam? The steadicam pilot will have a weight limit of 10lbs and cost about 3950 with video or 3750 with a 3 1/2" video screen, while the others are about 1900-2300 without video and weight limits from 10-14lbs And of those (indicam and smoothshooter) for an XHL1 and radio, firestore/led light need a dual arm indicam or can the smoothshooter or single 10lb arm work? I guess this is only truely answered by someone who has tried out both, or at least tried one at the higher end limits to say how that one handled at the high end of the weight class. Peter, as for your demo its very well done and smooth, I like it, and funny I just happened to find that trash your dress site the other day from something unrelated. Now as for the tech side of it what camera and equipment, and I ask not from a video sense, but to get a feel for what type of weight you had on the arm and also what arm single or double? Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com

July 30th, 2007, 09:36 PM	#18
Stephen Eastwood Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Great Neck, NY Posts: 291	OK so I received an email about another alternative product on the market does anyone know anything about this http://fsprostab.com/english/components/components.htm It supposedly handles from 6-20lbs.

July 30th, 2007, 10:56 PM	#20
Stephen Eastwood Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Great Neck, NY Posts: 291	Owner I believe

July 31st, 2007, 12:58 AM	#23
Chris Klidonas Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NY, NY Posts: 129	so let me just ask, what is the single vs double upgrade, they all have a double articulated arm and one has two sets of springs? Is the upgrade just to add stronger springs in the single and two springs in teh double?