Looking for a Stabilizer Rig, Suggestions and help please.

Philip Fass · June 21st, 2007, 01:54 PM

And in terms of practice time to achieve a certainl level of proficiency, a Flyer (for example) would have a more gentle learning curve than an Ultra 2?

Charles Papert · June 21st, 2007, 02:02 PM

As I said before, the tradeoff is the weight of the system. With an Ultra2, you would need to learn how to maneuver with 50-70 lbs hanging off you and build up your stamina, whereas the Flyer is virtually weightless on the body in comparison. However, the increased inertia of the Ultra means the shots will be inherently more stable than with the bantamweight Flyer, which requires a lighter touch. We big rig fliers often talk about our ideal camera, which has just enough mass to be nicely inert but not so much that it handicaps your mobility or wears you out. Cameras that are considered "squirrely" because they are too light to be ideal are somewhere in the 50 lb vicinity (that's camera and rig combined), so you can imagine how we feel about a 20 lb Flyer setup...!

Philip Fass · June 21st, 2007, 02:08 PM

Well, Charles, I'll bite: how do you feel when you face a squirrely camera? You've been hired to shoot with a 10 or 12 lb. camera and a Flyer. (Unlikely as this may be.)

Do you anticipate a lot of reshooting, a stressful job, more time to setup and/or complete each shot...? Or are you tempted to turn down the job?

Thanks again for your insights. Examples of what makes a board like this so indispensable!

Charles Papert · June 21st, 2007, 02:21 PM

Philip:

Depends on the job. Our own Nate Weaver brought me in to shoot a multi-camera concert last year with the Sony 350, which stripped down was about that light (and I suitably stripped down my rig to lightweight mode to work with it, but my sled was probably still 2x as heavy as the Flyer's). That was great because I was in the rig for quite a long time and I was willing to make the sacrifice for longevity.

I demo'd the Flyer to David Lynch on the set of "Inland Empire" and he decided to have me do a shot (which I didn't expect at all) and had a bit of a rough time because the rig was so squirrely and I wasn't used to it.

So my thought would be this: if I was asked to do a "serious" Steadicam move with a lightweight camera, I would simply add a bunch of weight via lead plates and put it on my big rig (and have done just this in the past for small projects). If I needed to have the mobility or longevity, I would use a Flyer and get some practice time in with it. I'm actually building a lightweight sled right now that will be somewhere inbetween a Flyer and my big rig for just this purpose since these little cameras are here to stay.

The Flyer is more than capable of making beautiful shots, but it is a slightly different skill, just like the Merlin.

Brian Drysdale · June 21st, 2007, 02:35 PM

I used to regard the Arri 16 SR1 with a Super Speed Distagon prime as the fun camera, it was the lightest camera that the Steadicam III could carry on the arm.

Philip Fass · June 22nd, 2007, 04:14 AM

Charles, I wonder if you've ever tried a Merlin and, if so, what you thought. That must be a real culture shock for you!

BTW, I just noticed two interesting things about the Indicam website:

1. They have a "Pilot" stablizer of their own, which makes me wonder if they're headed for a tradename confrontation w/Tiffen.
2. They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?

Charles King · June 23rd, 2007, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Fass

...They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?

Here's my opinion/review:

http://hbsboard.com/index.php/topic,....html#msg25506

Philip Fass · June 23rd, 2007, 05:01 AM

Charles, your review of the Flyer was very helpful. Ditto for this one. Thanks!

The only glitch with the DVD is, they don't make it easy to order. I guess you have to email them and arrange to purchase it.

Charles King · June 23rd, 2007, 05:14 AM

If you read thelink on my review page you could get it for 30 dollars. If you are interested just send me your full name, phone number and e-mail and I will get it to Terry. My e-mail is c.king@telia.com

BTW, the dvd has bloopers scenes added to it at the end.

Sean Seah · June 23rd, 2007, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Fass

BTW, I just noticed two interesting things about the Indicam website:

1. They have a "Pilot" stablizer of their own, which makes me wonder if they're headed for a tradename confrontation w/Tiffen.
2. They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?

Hi Philip, I have the Training video from Indicam. To cut it short,
" Its GOOD".

Terry Thompson · June 24th, 2007, 10:52 PM

Thanks Sean!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philip Fass

Charles, I wonder if you've ever tried a Merlin and, if so, what you thought. That must be a real culture shock for you!

BTW, I just noticed two interesting things about the Indicam website:

1. They have a "Pilot" stabilizer of their own, which makes me wonder if they're headed for a tradename confrontation w/Tiffen.
2. They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?

Philip,

We did have a talk with both Garrett and Frank R. of Tiffen at the Tiffen booth during NAB this year. They didn't know we had trademarked the PILOT name because it didn't appear in their Google search etc. (We like to keep low key). We don't exactly know what the repercussions will be but since we had the name and have been selling Indicam PILOTs for over two years we aren't in any violation. We're trying to see how we can resolve this so both of us can win. We have great respect for Garrett.

Regarding the "Stabilizer Basics" training DVD, email me directly through our website (http://www.indicam.com/index.php?opt...ntact&Itemid=3) and we will get a DVD off to you quickly.

Tery
Indicam

==================

Philip Fass · June 25th, 2007, 06:10 AM

Thanks, Terry. Email sent.

Charles Papert · June 26th, 2007, 02:37 AM

Interesting, Terry. I've heard the name "Pilot" bandied around for a few months but hadn't made the connection yet. Looking forward to hear how it all turns out.

Philip Fass · June 26th, 2007, 05:36 AM

Good to know that Terry and Indicam don't immediately think "lawsuit!" -- all too common these days.

Terry Thompson · June 26th, 2007, 09:42 AM

Philip,

That's the very last thing we think of. We know that Tiffen wasn't trying to steal our trademark. Sometimes things like this just happen. We'll work it out between us to our mutual benefit.

Your DVD is in the mail and thanks.

How about i-PILOT and s-Pilot.

Tery
Indicam

June 21st, 2007, 02:02 PM	#32
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	As I said before, the tradeoff is the weight of the system. With an Ultra2, you would need to learn how to maneuver with 50-70 lbs hanging off you and build up your stamina, whereas the Flyer is virtually weightless on the body in comparison. However, the increased inertia of the Ultra means the shots will be inherently more stable than with the bantamweight Flyer, which requires a lighter touch. We big rig fliers often talk about our ideal camera, which has just enough mass to be nicely inert but not so much that it handicaps your mobility or wears you out. Cameras that are considered "squirrely" because they are too light to be ideal are somewhere in the 50 lb vicinity (that's camera and rig combined), so you can imagine how we feel about a 20 lb Flyer setup...! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 21st, 2007, 02:21 PM	#34
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Philip: Depends on the job. Our own Nate Weaver brought me in to shoot a multi-camera concert last year with the Sony 350, which stripped down was about that light (and I suitably stripped down my rig to lightweight mode to work with it, but my sled was probably still 2x as heavy as the Flyer's). That was great because I was in the rig for quite a long time and I was willing to make the sacrifice for longevity. I demo'd the Flyer to David Lynch on the set of "Inland Empire" and he decided to have me do a shot (which I didn't expect at all) and had a bit of a rough time because the rig was so squirrely and I wasn't used to it. So my thought would be this: if I was asked to do a "serious" Steadicam move with a lightweight camera, I would simply add a bunch of weight via lead plates and put it on my big rig (and have done just this in the past for small projects). If I needed to have the mobility or longevity, I would use a Flyer and get some practice time in with it. I'm actually building a lightweight sled right now that will be somewhere inbetween a Flyer and my big rig for just this purpose since these little cameras are here to stay. The Flyer is more than capable of making beautiful shots, but it is a slightly different skill, just like the Merlin. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 22nd, 2007, 04:14 AM	#36
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Charles, I wonder if you've ever tried a Merlin and, if so, what you thought. That must be a real culture shock for you! BTW, I just noticed two interesting things about the Indicam website: 1. They have a "Pilot" stablizer of their own, which makes me wonder if they're headed for a tradename confrontation w/Tiffen. 2. They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it? Last edited by Philip Fass; June 22nd, 2007 at 06:54 AM.

June 23rd, 2007, 05:14 AM	#39
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	If you read thelink on my review page you could get it for 30 dollars. If you are interested just send me your full name, phone number and e-mail and I will get it to Terry. My e-mail is c.king@telia.com BTW, the dvd has bloopers scenes added to it at the end. __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'

June 26th, 2007, 02:37 AM	#43
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Interesting, Terry. I've heard the name "Pilot" bandied around for a few months but hadn't made the connection yet. Looking forward to hear how it all turns out. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

June 21st, 2007, 01:54 PM	#31
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	And in terms of practice time to achieve a certainl level of proficiency, a Flyer (for example) would have a more gentle learning curve than an Ultra 2?

June 21st, 2007, 02:08 PM	#33
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Well, Charles, I'll bite: how do you feel when you face a squirrely camera? You've been hired to shoot with a 10 or 12 lb. camera and a Flyer. (Unlikely as this may be.) Do you anticipate a lot of reshooting, a stressful job, more time to setup and/or complete each shot...? Or are you tempted to turn down the job? Thanks again for your insights. Examples of what makes a board like this so indispensable!

June 21st, 2007, 02:35 PM	#35
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	I used to regard the Arri 16 SR1 with a Super Speed Distagon prime as the fun camera, it was the lightest camera that the Steadicam III could carry on the arm.

June 23rd, 2007, 05:01 AM	#38
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Charles, your review of the Flyer was very helpful. Ditto for this one. Thanks! The only glitch with the DVD is, they don't make it easy to order. I guess you have to email them and arrange to purchase it.

June 25th, 2007, 06:10 AM	#42
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Thanks, Terry. Email sent.

June 26th, 2007, 05:36 AM	#44
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Good to know that Terry and Indicam don't immediately think "lawsuit!" -- all too common these days.

June 26th, 2007, 09:42 AM	#45
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Philip, That's the very last thing we think of. We know that Tiffen wasn't trying to steal our trademark. Sometimes things like this just happen. We'll work it out between us to our mutual benefit. Your DVD is in the mail and thanks. How about i-PILOT and s-Pilot. Tery Indicam __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com