Handheld Stabilizer Users... How do you reduce forearm and back fatigue?

J. Stephen McDonald · April 27th, 2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Forman

Just out of curiosity, do you guys have a nicer pair of shoes, for when you do nicer dressed functions? I got a pair of David Taylors at Sears, and they aren't quite as comfy as running shoes, but way better than my boots. Nice black suede and soft soles, sort of corporate casual.

You betcha, I've got some fancy footware. When I got out of the Army and went back to college, I signed-up for another term of Air Force ROTC, just so I could get a free pair of black dress shoes. I still have them and use them every three or four years, for funerals. Then, there's always my pair of semi-hightop Redwings, that I've had since high school. Does a pair of steel-tipped, box-laced paratrooper boots count as dress shoes? I once stood in an honor guard for European royalty with them.

Picture----far right, front row: http://www.redstone.army.mil/history...tantine_58.jpg

K. Forman · April 27th, 2006, 06:13 PM

*shudder* No thanks... I'll take something a bit more casual than Army shoes. They weren't all that bad, just not as comfy as I like.

Terry Thompson · April 30th, 2006, 05:27 PM

Greetings to all,

Just back from NAB where we had a great time.

I tried out all the stabilizers I could locate. I went to Glidecam's booth (great guys by the way) and after using the forearm brace for a short time I came more to realize that unless you're Superman, you NEED a vest and arm system to support your sled if you're going to shoot for any extended time. I don't know any other way around it. I know it's money but for those of us who have shot both ways, the expense it absolutly worth it. Like I've said in other posts, with the support system, you can shoot for hours-not just minutes and you don't "hurt" when your done...well, maybe just a little.

Tery

Peter Chung · April 30th, 2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Thompson

Greetings to all,

Just back from NAB where we had a great time.

I tried out all the stabilizers I could locate. I went to Glidecam's booth (great guys by the way) and after using the forearm brace for a short time I came more to realize that unless you're Superman, you NEED a vest and arm system to support your sled if you're going to shoot for any extended time. I don't know any other way around it. I know it's money but for those of us who have shot both ways, the expense it absolutly worth it. Like I've said in other posts, with the support system, you can shoot for hours-not just minutes and you don't "hurt" when your done...well, maybe just a little.

Tery

Terry, while I would like to be able to use a support system, I don't know how much of a distraction I will be with it. I want something discreet and mobile so as not to draw too much attention and yet get great footage... that is why I bought the Indicam :)

My current use of the Indicam is for pre-ceremony, location setting, and b-roll footage. While a full body support system is appropriate and warranted for movies and independent films and the like, walking around in a full rig at a wedding would only seem to cause distraction and add to the common notion that videographers are anything but discreet and only get in the way. Also, spaces are tight and there are usually obstacles, not to mention people, at weddings ;)

Perhaps the Steadicam JR or Merlin would be a better choice for people who want a stabilizer and yet still remain discreet and mobile because the center of gravity does not strain your wrist as much... Nonetheless, the Indicam is a great product and I do like it very much ;) The gimbal is smooth like butter :)

Peter

P.S. Terry, do you prefer to spell your name "Terry" or "Tery" because I see both.

Terry Thompson · May 1st, 2006, 11:05 AM

Peter,

You are correct again. It is hard to be discrete with a full rig.

I just finished watching my daughter's wedding video where we used the PILOT sled only and the video looked great but it was a stress for long shots. My son handled the system while I danced the father and daughter dance. At the end you could hear him say under his breath "My arm's getting really tired". I laughed!

For your situation you are doing the correct thing. I have used the full rig at a wedding before but only at the reception. The wedding party knew and approved of it so everything was fine. I wore black so I wouldn't stand out as much. Standard color for steadycam use in live situations.

If you can send me a picture of you with the sled I'll put it on my website and link it to your website if you would like.

With regards to Terry or Tery, I use Tery in the video business generally so when I receive correspondence I know where it's from. Either way is OK.

Tery
Indicam

Terry Thompson · May 1st, 2006, 10:00 PM

Peter,

Another thought. If you drop the extension as far as it will go, take off some of the counter weights, and re-position the gimble accordingly it should be easier on your arm.

I bought a .5 pound MPEG4 video camera at NAB and flew it with the PILOT sled. This of course is an extreme difference from the DVX-100a I usually fly but it was much easier. I shot "Simon the Magician" at one of the booths for about 20--25 minutes using the stabilizer this way.

The point being that if you can take some of the weights off the bottom and extend the post, flying will be easier because the sled will be lighter. This is only important if you need to video for more than a few minutes. I don't know how much extra time you'll be able to shoot but it will be longer.

Combine this with getting certain muscles toned up and it could really help.

Tery
Indicam

Peter Chung · May 2nd, 2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Thompson

Peter,

Another thought. If you drop the extension as far as it will go, take off some of the counter weights, and re-position the gimble accordingly it should be easier on your arm.

I bought a .5 pound MPEG4 video camera at NAB and flew it with the PILOT sled. This of course is an extreme difference from the DVX-100a I usually fly but it was much easier. I shot "Simon the Magician" at one of the booths for about 20--25 minutes using the stabilizer this way.

The point being that if you can take some of the weights off the bottom and extend the post, flying will be easier because the sled will be lighter. This is only important if you need to video for more than a few minutes. I don't know how much extra time you'll be able to shoot but it will be longer.

Combine this with getting certain muscles toned up and it could really help.

Tery
Indicam

How does flying like this affect your shots? I believe others like Charles Papert have said that it's best to keep the post as short as possible and the gimbal about three to four fingers away from the stage.

Is it harder to control or to keep level? Does wind resistance affect it more?

Dan Selakovich · May 2nd, 2006, 08:19 AM

I was always impressed by my old cinematography instructor's, Kris Malkiewicz, amazingly steady hand held work. I asked him how he did it; "Tai Chi". I had the advantage of attending CalArts where the actors are required to take Tai Chi, so you could just add yourself to the group. And I have to say it really does help your stabilizer operating as well. Get yourself a Tai Chi video! It really helps balance out your body and posture. As for a tired wrist, I've found a wrist splint (the velcro kind with splints that someone with a wrist sprang my wear that you can find at any drug store) is a big help. In addition, practicing 5 minutes with the stabilizer 3 times a day, then extend the time a few minutes each week will really get those muscles in shape in a couple of months and improve your operating as well. My vote for shoes are Merrell http://www.merrell.com/Main.aspx Not only super comfortable, but completely silent!

dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

Charles Papert · May 2nd, 2006, 08:42 AM

Hmm, did I say that? I guess I did. I wasn't thinking of handheld stabilizers though, which have a shorter post to begin with--let's just say that a good ratio of post above gimbal to below gimbal should be 8-1 or greater. 3 to 4 fingers is too much for a handheld rig that might have a 12" long post.

Peter Chung · May 9th, 2006, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Thompson

Peter,

You are correct again. It is hard to be discrete with a full rig.

I just finished watching my daughter's wedding video where we used the PILOT sled only and the video looked great but it was a stress for long shots. My son handled the system while I danced the father and daughter dance. At the end you could hear him say under his breath "My arm's getting really tired". I laughed!

Tery
Indicam

Terry,

Do you mind sharing your wedding video clip of Indicam shots? I'd love to see the difference between using the full rig and going handheld or monopod.

Thanks,
Peter

Terry Thompson · May 10th, 2006, 12:12 AM

Peter,

I'll have to get some of them on my website which will be in a few days as I'm still editing the wedding video.

Tery

Dan Selakovich · May 10th, 2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

Terry,

Do you mind sharing your wedding video clip of Indicam shots? I'd love to see the difference between using the full rig and going handheld or monopod.

Thanks,
Peter

Hi Peter,

If you're interested, you can take a look at my little demo of a handheld unit on my site:

http://dvcamerarigs.com/killercontents.html

The "Shock Corridor Stabilizer" has a QT link next to it. Just click it and take a look.

dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

Terry Thompson · May 12th, 2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Chung

Terry,

Do you mind sharing your wedding video clip of Indicam shots? I'd love to see the difference between using the full rig and going handheld or monopod.

Thanks,
Peter

I have finally uploaded a clip from the last wedding. Boy what a week!

It can be found here:
www.indicam.com/media/steadiweddingSlow.wmv

Some of the best shots are lock-offs which I can also do with my rig.

Be kind as I am a manufacturer and not a professional steadicam operator.

Dan Selakovich · May 12th, 2006, 10:54 AM

Nice job, Terry. Though I could see the whole thing (slow-mo really helps steady things out too!), I'm sure the bride and groom will be quite happy with it.

Dan
www.DVcameraRigs.com

Terry Thompson · May 12th, 2006, 12:55 PM

Thanks Dan,

The hardest thing about this wedding reception was the low light. For all of us who face this problem there needs to be something in the contract that states "Adequate lighting will be used to allow for proper video" or something like that.

OK smart wedding videographers, what is the correct wording? I could come up with it eventually but I'm sure you guys have already done it so I won't reinvent the wheel.

Tery
Indicam

April 27th, 2006, 06:13 PM	#17
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	shudder No thanks... I'll take something a bit more casual than Army shoes. They weren't all that bad, just not as comfy as I like. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

April 30th, 2006, 05:27 PM	#18
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Greetings to all, Just back from NAB where we had a great time. I tried out all the stabilizers I could locate. I went to Glidecam's booth (great guys by the way) and after using the forearm brace for a short time I came more to realize that unless you're Superman, you NEED a vest and arm system to support your sled if you're going to shoot for any extended time. I don't know any other way around it. I know it's money but for those of us who have shot both ways, the expense it absolutly worth it. Like I've said in other posts, with the support system, you can shoot for hours-not just minutes and you don't "hurt" when your done...well, maybe just a little. Tery __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

May 1st, 2006, 11:05 AM	#20
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Peter, You are correct again. It is hard to be discrete with a full rig. I just finished watching my daughter's wedding video where we used the PILOT sled only and the video looked great but it was a stress for long shots. My son handled the system while I danced the father and daughter dance. At the end you could hear him say under his breath "My arm's getting really tired". I laughed! For your situation you are doing the correct thing. I have used the full rig at a wedding before but only at the reception. The wedding party knew and approved of it so everything was fine. I wore black so I wouldn't stand out as much. Standard color for steadycam use in live situations. If you can send me a picture of you with the sled I'll put it on my website and link it to your website if you would like. With regards to Terry or Tery, I use Tery in the video business generally so when I receive correspondence I know where it's from. Either way is OK. Tery Indicam __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

May 1st, 2006, 10:00 PM	#21
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Peter, Another thought. If you drop the extension as far as it will go, take off some of the counter weights, and re-position the gimble accordingly it should be easier on your arm. I bought a .5 pound MPEG4 video camera at NAB and flew it with the PILOT sled. This of course is an extreme difference from the DVX-100a I usually fly but it was much easier. I shot "Simon the Magician" at one of the booths for about 20--25 minutes using the stabilizer this way. The point being that if you can take some of the weights off the bottom and extend the post, flying will be easier because the sled will be lighter. This is only important if you need to video for more than a few minutes. I don't know how much extra time you'll be able to shoot but it will be longer. Combine this with getting certain muscles toned up and it could really help. Tery Indicam __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

May 2nd, 2006, 08:42 AM	#24
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Hmm, did I say that? I guess I did. I wasn't thinking of handheld stabilizers though, which have a shorter post to begin with--let's just say that a good ratio of post above gimbal to below gimbal should be 8-1 or greater. 3 to 4 fingers is too much for a handheld rig that might have a 12" long post. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

May 2nd, 2006, 08:19 AM	#23
Dan Selakovich Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 220	I was always impressed by my old cinematography instructor's, Kris Malkiewicz, amazingly steady hand held work. I asked him how he did it; "Tai Chi". I had the advantage of attending CalArts where the actors are required to take Tai Chi, so you could just add yourself to the group. And I have to say it really does help your stabilizer operating as well. Get yourself a Tai Chi video! It really helps balance out your body and posture. As for a tired wrist, I've found a wrist splint (the velcro kind with splints that someone with a wrist sprang my wear that you can find at any drug store) is a big help. In addition, practicing 5 minutes with the stabilizer 3 times a day, then extend the time a few minutes each week will really get those muscles in shape in a couple of months and improve your operating as well. My vote for shoes are Merrell http://www.merrell.com/Main.aspx Not only super comfortable, but completely silent! dan www.DVcameraRigs.com

May 10th, 2006, 12:12 AM	#26
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Peter, I'll have to get some of them on my website which will be in a few days as I'm still editing the wedding video. Tery __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

May 12th, 2006, 10:54 AM	#29
Dan Selakovich Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 220	Nice job, Terry. Though I could see the whole thing (slow-mo really helps steady things out too!), I'm sure the bride and groom will be quite happy with it. Dan www.DVcameraRigs.com

May 12th, 2006, 12:55 PM	#30
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Thanks Dan, The hardest thing about this wedding reception was the low light. For all of us who face this problem there needs to be something in the contract that states "Adequate lighting will be used to allow for proper video" or something like that. OK smart wedding videographers, what is the correct wording? I could come up with it eventually but I'm sure you guys have already done it so I won't reinvent the wheel. Tery Indicam __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com Last edited by Terry Thompson; May 12th, 2006 at 02:00 PM.