Basic stabilizer questions

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

Leigh,
I may have said this in the past, but my girlfriend and I were so impressed by NZ when we spent a few weeks there last year that we have fantasies of moving there some day...

USA was my dream country to live, but I am very happy to settle in NZ. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

[Tom Mecozzi]

Guys, once again thanks for all the help.

Basically I'm just a ENG shooter who's been through all the changes in the industry over the past decades. As all of you know, todays union cameroperator is a shooter/soundman/gaffer/editor/microwave and even SAT truck operator. In fact, nowadays my station is even asking for a 4 year college degree (to better prepare for adding reporter to the list as well!) Over the past ten years I have only been a 1 man self contained operation. Even in the days of the old 30# Sony 110 decks we used to shlep around over our left shoulders with a 30# Ike camera on our right, and another 20# lighting belt strapped around our midsection, we were expected to do 1 man. Needless to say as management got FATTER, we all grew slimmer!
It took me till my ripe old age of 43 to realize what a weak UNION representation the T.V. camera market here in L.A. is compared to our film counterpart ( same union by the way!)

Now I'm looking to make a change, if not for my family, for my health. So I came up with an idea with a reporter friend of mine and together we are doing a small production. In the past I've always used what they gave me and never really appreciated the equipment. I tend to be more creative than technical, but now I'm in charge of the technical aspect as well so here I am.

Thank God for forums like this!

If my pilot goes well, the show will be aired on early Sat morning T.V. through a high definition channel K.T.L.A. here in L.A. It is a superstation reaching over 5 million viewers.

I am restricted from using ANY camera stabilization systems that would touch the ground (tripod,monopod,etc.etc.) Same thing with lighting, no tripod mounts. At most just a belted assistant bouncing a 1K for fill. This is why I am looking at a portable stabilization unit or steadicam system, and a camera that shoots descent in low light situations.

I believe the new JVC, Canon, Pan cameras should be a sufficient picture for the time of day my show will air. In fact, they're probably better than the cameras I was using in the field just 5 years ago!

I'd like to fly one of these cameras with at least a remote Zoom. Charles, with all the experience you have, how important is a remote iris? Am I correct in my assumption that I don't need a remote focus because everything I shoot will be through a wide angle adapter set on infinity (D.O.P. through the small 1/3 chips is'nt as criticle as my 2/3 chips that I'm used to therfore forground objects should be in focus as well as background with the adapter?)

If you guys were doing this, would you go straight for one of the HDDV cams listed on these forums? I am staying away from Sony mainly because I am so used to professional setup lenses like the JVC has, I just can't get into the controlling issues of their prosumer range, great cameras, just awkward for me.

For my pilot I will be renting my equipment through E.V.S. in Glendale. They and B. and S. in Hollywood are the only two places I can find to rent a steady system. They both carry most the camera's on this forum. E.V.S. rents the Hollywood lite unit. Will this be sufficient to use? Is it possible to take a fully setup and balanced steady system out for the first time and come back with descent material? Am I dreaming?

Anyway thanks again for all the help and helping me to escape T.V. news!!!!!!


Tom

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Tom Mecozzi

For my pilot I will be renting my equipment through E.V.S. in Glendale. They and B. and S. in Hollywood are the only two places I can find to rent a steady system. They both carry most the camera's on this forum. E.V.S. rents the Hollywood lite unit. Will this be sufficient to use? Is it possible to take a fully setup and balanced steady system out for the first time and come back with descent material? Am I dreaming?

Hi Tom,

Two questions.

When will you start your programme on air?

How much will you pay to rent a steady system through E.V.S?

Regards
Leigh

[Mikko Wilson]

CP, good to hear you are healing.. isn't the G70 a beauty?

Tom,
I'll start from the bottom.
Sorry to sound harsh; but YES, you are dreaming. No way can you (anyone) go out with a rig on for the first time and come back with something that could be considered usable.

What's with the ground restriction?

It's a difficult position you are in, you have to decide what will work best for you: the smaller chip cameras will will give you a bigger DOF.. making it easier to shoot. The bigger chips will be FAR more light sensetive...which lets you close the irs for better DOF that you cant' do with the little chips.

Another option would be to invest in a slightly larger stabilizer, like the Steadicam Archer and then you coudl jsut fly yoru current camera.

I'd sugest you go to the rental houses and ask to try out their gear, as a potential cutomer.
Or, just head over to Steadicam at 6933 San Fernando Road
Glendale, CA and ask them for advice, the'll prolly get you in a rig to demo right off the bat..then they'll [obviously correctly] tell you you should take a workshop ;-)

- Mikko

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Mikko Wilson

Another option would be to invest in a slightly larger stabilizer, like the Steadicam Archer and then you coudl jsut fly yoru current camera.
- Mikko

Hi Mikko,

What you suggested is quite dear IMHO.

Archer will sell for around US$24,990.00

Reference
http://www.steadicam.com/images/content/Archer.pdf

I will also warn Tom that even you paid US$24,990.00 won't guarantee you to get a steady shot for the first year you own the rig. Maybe three or four years you might come to the level you want.

My stabilizer price will be a fractional of US$24,990.00 to support your existing camera. ;-) So you don't need a loan to get my stabilizer.

Regards
Leigh

[Tom Mecozzi]

Leigh, the E.V.S. cost is $175.00 a weekend for the Hollywood Lite. We plan on our first air on Jan 1st 2006.

Mikko, thanks for the info as well as all your posts on other forums as well, you guys really help newbees like myself. I will be shooting multi million dollar homes that will restrict us if anything but a pair of tennis shoes touches the floor. Also, speed is of the essence as well as creative expression of a very boring medium to shoot. The big buck guys do a beautiful job (H@G, TLC) but I dont have their budget or time to shoot, this is ENG style with a smoother edge.
I am getting alot of pressure from the 3 other people in my team asking me why I just cant pick up a rig and start shooting, as operators we all know how others don't quite get it. I have pushed to hire a professional steady guy from the start at least for our pilot. Then after the purchase of my unit I can practise,practise,practise before the show tapings myself.
I am going to make it a point to head down to Glendale to check out the Steadicam flyer and to hear what they say about the other brands such as Magiqcam and Glidecam.

Thanks again,

Tom

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Tom Mecozzi

I have pushed to hire a professional steady guy from the start at least for our pilot. Then after the purchase of my unit I can practise,practise,practise before the show tapings myself.

Hi Tom,

I think that is a great idea.

I purchased my jvc gy-dv5000 camera after one years researching though I regreted that I wait a year and lost valuable time. But that is just me.

Regards
Leigh

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Tom Mecozzi

I will be shooting multi million dollar homes that will restrict us if anything but a pair of tennis shoes touches the floor. Also, speed is of the essence as well as creative expression of a very boring medium to shoot. The big buck guys do a beautiful job (H@G, TLC) but I dont have their budget or time to shoot, this is ENG style with a smoother edge.

Hi Tom,

Another question

How much is the price range for shooting multi million dollar homes on average generally in USA?

TIA

Regards
Leigh

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Tom Mecozzi

Leigh, the E.V.S. cost is $175.00 a weekend for the Hollywood Lite.

I plan to lease my stabilizer for US$10 per day to long term customer in USA FYI.

Regards
Leigh

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Mikko Wilson

No way can you (anyone) go out with a rig on for the first time and come back with something that could be considered usable.

Hi Mikko,

I am commited to help my customer fulfill this dream true. ;-) If not, maybe in a week time.

Regards
Leigh

[Mikko Wilson]

Leigh... look at the bottom right of your posts... see that little icon with the scisors that says EDIT! USE IT! ..sorry to rant, but one line posts get annying prety quick.
When do we get to see your stabilizer leigh? 200g to 20kg? A Merlin to an Archer.. for $10 a day? Lets see what you have then!
...if it's going to make a decent operator in a week. I can only hope that is in the way of it including a coupon to an SOA workshop. ;-)

My sugestion of the Archer, which you can get for just over $20k, was based on Tom's seeming budget of somewhere under $10k for the camera and stabilizer each. - oh and yes you can get much cheaper than that..i got ahead of myself a little... for example an Steadicam SK2 is well under $10k ..no where near as nice as the archer, but would definatly do the job with a bigger camera for Tom too.

Tom,
I'd sugest when you go visit Steadicam [say hi to Frank from me] - take the 3 guys from your team with you, and have them try on the rig too! ..if not then, then when you first rent a rig to shoot or practice.
Your idea of getting a pro op for the pilot is a FANTASTIC idea ..but you have to be carefull not to sell somthign that you may not be able to delive later too. In fact i'm also going to make the crazy sugestion that you hire a steadicam operator for all the shoots.. but that kinda defeats the purpose, I know.
Keep us posted on how it turns out.

- Mikko

[Leigh Wanstead]

Hi Mikko,

I stand by what I said otherwise money back. I will deliver what I said in a short time.

Here is what I said I guarantee.

1 support camera weight from 200g(if that camera exists) to 20kg(If you can manage to carry with counter balance) using the same stabilizer
2 for $10 a day for long term renting

Regards
Leigh

Originally Posted by Mikko Wilson

Leigh... look at the bottom right of your posts... see that little icon with the scisors that says EDIT! USE IT! ..sorry to rant, but one line posts get annying prety quick.
When do we get to see your stabilizer leigh? 200g to 20kg? A Merlin to an Archer.. for $10 a day? Lets see what you have then!
...if it's going to make a decent operator in a week. I can only hope that is in the way of it including a coupon to an SOA workshop. ;-)

[Tom Mecozzi]

Leigh,

Making money doing this is something I'm not sure of right now, I guess it will depend on our budget after all expenses.

Mikko,

I called Steadicam and found they rent the Flyer at B and S here in Hollywood for $250 a day. The steadicam rig rate in L.A. is $100 an hour, 10 min per day so to get an op would cost me about $1000.

Anyway, once again, thanks,

Tom

[Leigh Wanstead]

Originally Posted by Tom Mecozzi

Leigh,

Making money doing this is something I'm not sure of right now, I guess it will depend on our budget after all expenses.

Hi Tom,

I wish you successful. It is always good to be your own boss.

Regards
Leigh

[Charles Papert]

Tom:

$1000/day is a good median rate for Steadicam--for a full size rig with all of the trimmings and experienced operator, you'd be looking at about twice that ($100/hr for 10 PLUS $1000 for gear) and for a newer operator with a lesser rig, $500 combined. I'd be happy to refer you to my colleagues in the local area in whichever range you prefer.

I think your choice of bringing in an op for the pilot is an excellent one; after all, you need to sell the product so you want it to be as good as possible.

Mikko's idea of having everyone in your team try on the rig is great. A skilled operator will make it look easy; it really isn't. With your experience, chances are excellent that you would be able to produce better images shooting handheld than your first day in the rig (or even 4th or 5th day!); and realize that that is a compliment more than anything else--Steadicam is not really an instinctual machine, and even someone with pre-existing and solid framing skills is often frustrated at getting the sucker to "behave" at first. I helped teach hundreds of operators at the Steadicam workshops, so believe me, I've seen it!

Please feel free to pass this opinion on to your team members straight from me.

Oh, regarding the iris issue--it's a bit tough to say. Going room to room may present some issues with level with using a manual iris, yet auto iris will surely cause clamping issues when hot windows loom into view. A manual control for iris may be the ticket; there are such devices for focus that attach to the gimbal but you could simply move the motor over from the focus gear to the iris. Interesting.

Mikko, by the way--check your post regarding DoF, I think you had something backwards regarding stopping down a 2/3" camera to get what one cannot with 1/3"--that would actually replicate the deeper focus of 1/3"?