Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly H2 at DVinfo.net

Silas Barker · May 27th, 2016, 03:20 PM

I have a client who wants to create a video similar to this one: (specifically the actual singing parts and violin parts; moving camera)

The shots are really clean. I have a Glidecam 4000 pro that is pretty old, and I am pondering getting the Beholder DS1 or Pilotfly H2..........or something else?

What would your suggestions be for creating similar moving shots (filmed with a Canon 5D).

Thanks!

P.S. Looks like some sort of steadicam at 1:55

Edward Carlson · May 27th, 2016, 04:22 PM

If you already have a Glidecam, then use it. Unless you want an excuse to buy a handheld gimbal stabilizer.

Silas Barker · May 27th, 2016, 04:38 PM

The Glidecam 4000 pro is about 10 years old and now that I am using DSLR mainly to shoot, I was wondering if there are any benefits to the new stabilizers out there?

Specifically if the results are good with a prime lens with no IS (glidecam 4000 is only a 2 axis gimbal and does not reduce jitters completely)

Edward Carlson · May 27th, 2016, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas Barker

The Glidecam 4000 pro is about 10 years old and now that I am using DSLR mainly to shoot, I was wondering if there are any benefits to the new stabilizers out there?

And Steadicams are still used on most major films despite being invented in the '70's

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas Barker

Specifically if the results are good with a prime lens with no IS (glidecam 4000 is only a 2 axis gimbal and does not reduce jitters completely)

It does reduce jitters if used by a skilled operator.

Silas Barker · May 27th, 2016, 04:59 PM

It looks great with IS but not quite perfect without it - at least at my skill level.

What about the gimbal stabilizers? Do they work good without IS lenses?

Edward Carlson · May 27th, 2016, 05:04 PM

Yes, the Movi and Ronin are used extensively with cameras with PL mount lenses. They do a great job.

It sounds like you want me to tell you that a gimbal stabilizer is better than a Glidecam. I'm not going to do that. I think that in the right hands, a Glidecam or Steadicam is a wonderful tool. The same goes for a gimbal stabilizer. Either one would work for the type of video you referenced. But not just anyone can pick one up and make a perfectly smooth video. The decision is yours.

Silas Barker · May 27th, 2016, 05:12 PM

I have had really great results with the Glidecam 4000 and larger cameras like the Sony Z1, Z5, etc

Maybe the Glidecam 4000 is too large for a DSLR

Edward Carlson · May 27th, 2016, 05:16 PM

Nope, the 4000 is fine for a DSLR. We have the XR-4000 (the updated 4000) that we fly a 60D on.

Here's an example:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BDzCPPzP-TL/

Matt Sharp · May 27th, 2016, 09:22 PM

It looks like they're using a Glidecam XR at about 1:56 in the video. There's your answer right there.

Noa Put · May 28th, 2016, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Carlson

If you already have a Glidecam, then use it. Unless you want an excuse to buy a handheld gimbal stabilizer.

What about shooting in windy conditions, a small glidecam is fine indoors or outdoors but becomes near useless outdoors when there is too much wind, a gimbal stabilizer will stay level no matter what.
Another advantage is better tilt and pan control, I can make moves that are either very difficult or just impossible to do with a small steadicam.

The main problem with these gimbal stabilizers is getting jitter out of the footage which is because of wrong parameters in the gimbal software so that means finetuning and a lot of testing until you get it right, only, I have not found any good tutorial that explains in detail what each setting exactly does and you need to know that before you start messing with the numbers.

Donald McPherson · May 28th, 2016, 02:52 AM

Never having used one. But would a vest improve things?

Silas Barker · May 28th, 2016, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

What about shooting in windy conditions, a small glidecam is fine indoors or outdoors but becomes near useless outdoors when there is too much wind, a gimbal stabilizer will stay level no matter what.
Another advantage is better tilt and pan control, I can make moves that are either very difficult or just impossible to do with a small steadicam.

The main problem with these gimbal stabilizers is getting jitter out of the footage which is because of wrong parameters in the gimbal software so that means finetuning and a lot of testing until you get it right, only, I have not found any good tutorial that explains in detail what each setting exactly does and you need to know that before you start messing with the numbers.

I have never used any of the Gyro / Gimbal stabilizers but I am wondering if they need more time on the market to improve some of the problems that I hear about? I went to BH video and looked at the Beholder DS1 and there are a decent amount of people retuning that product. The Pilotfly H1 only has about 3.5 star rating in reviews with customers returning or disappointed in them. Hoping that the Pilotfly H2 will be better but its not available yet. Or maybe its the camera / lens set up that is not compatible with every stabilizer?

Silas Barker · May 28th, 2016, 12:21 PM

so I have only used the Glidecam without a vest, no sure if the vest is a huge improvement or not. Have gotten spectacular results without the vest using cameras like the Sony Z1, Z5, Ex1r etc.

I may need to rebalance and clean the system since its not quite perfect for my DSLR, 5D right now

Slavik Boyechko · May 28th, 2016, 03:15 PM

I think any stabilizer would work for what you're looking to do - basically add some camera movement to a singer/musician who is mostly staying in one spot. But the benefit of the right gimbal with a lightweight camera/lens setup is you can hold it for a long time without tiring your hands/wrists. And without wearing bulky chest or arm additions.

I just shot an outside tutorial video where my camera guy pointed a Pilotfly H2 with a Canon XC10 on me for pretty much a whole day, no sweat. And no jitters. The H2 can take a higher load capacity (4.5lb) than other lightweight gimbals, but a 5D with a lens may be pushing close to that.

Mostly I've been using the Letus Helix Jr. with a C100 and 10-18mm or 18-135mm, and that combo is amazingly easy to use for long periods of time. Here's one music video where I used it for a similar reason as your music video, just add slight motion to a singer/musician.

But many gimbals are not that ergonomic and end up tiring you as much as a Glidecam, though it's your upper arm area that gets exhausted instead of your wrists. Which is why a few gimbal shooters now add an EasyRig to take the load off on longer shoots. I'd give the Helix Jr. a serious look first, and then the Pilotfly H2 or Nebula 4200 or Came-TV lightweight gimbals, depending on your camera/lens weight.

Cheers,
Slavik

Silas Barker · May 28th, 2016, 03:39 PM

Nice Work!

So the Pilotfly H2 has better ergonomics then some of the other gimbals out there?

I am just waiting for it to be available and see more test footage I guess. Sounds awesome so far though.

Unfortunately the Canon 5Diii on my Glidecam 4000 is heavy and hard on my back. Wish I had a lighter system. A large unit like that requires a lot of weight to keep it steady unfortunately is seems like. :(

May 27th, 2016, 03:20 PM	#1
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly H2 I have a client who wants to create a video similar to this one: (specifically the actual singing parts and violin parts; moving camera) We Found Love - Lindsey Stirling (VenTribe) - YouTube The shots are really clean. I have a Glidecam 4000 pro that is pretty old, and I am pondering getting the Beholder DS1 or Pilotfly H2..........or something else? What would your suggestions be for creating similar moving shots (filmed with a Canon 5D). Thanks! P.S. Looks like some sort of steadicam at 1:55

May 27th, 2016, 04:22 PM	#2
Edward Carlson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA, United States Posts: 807	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly If you already have a Glidecam, then use it. Unless you want an excuse to buy a handheld gimbal stabilizer.

May 27th, 2016, 04:38 PM	#3
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly The Glidecam 4000 pro is about 10 years old and now that I am using DSLR mainly to shoot, I was wondering if there are any benefits to the new stabilizers out there? Specifically if the results are good with a prime lens with no IS (glidecam 4000 is only a 2 axis gimbal and does not reduce jitters completely)

May 27th, 2016, 04:59 PM	#5
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly It looks great with IS but not quite perfect without it - at least at my skill level. What about the gimbal stabilizers? Do they work good without IS lenses?

May 27th, 2016, 05:04 PM	#6
Edward Carlson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA, United States Posts: 807	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly Yes, the Movi and Ronin are used extensively with cameras with PL mount lenses. They do a great job. It sounds like you want me to tell you that a gimbal stabilizer is better than a Glidecam. I'm not going to do that. I think that in the right hands, a Glidecam or Steadicam is a wonderful tool. The same goes for a gimbal stabilizer. Either one would work for the type of video you referenced. But not just anyone can pick one up and make a perfectly smooth video. The decision is yours.

May 27th, 2016, 05:12 PM	#7
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly I have had really great results with the Glidecam 4000 and larger cameras like the Sony Z1, Z5, etc Maybe the Glidecam 4000 is too large for a DSLR

May 27th, 2016, 05:16 PM	#8
Edward Carlson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA, United States Posts: 807	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly Nope, the 4000 is fine for a DSLR. We have the XR-4000 (the updated 4000) that we fly a 60D on. Here's an example: https://www.instagram.com/p/BDzCPPzP-TL/

May 27th, 2016, 09:22 PM	#9
Matt Sharp Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Northridge, CA Posts: 280	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly It looks like they're using a Glidecam XR at about 1:56 in the video. There's your answer right there.

May 28th, 2016, 02:52 AM	#11
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly Never having used one. But would a vest improve things?

May 28th, 2016, 12:21 PM	#13
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly so I have only used the Glidecam without a vest, no sure if the vest is a huge improvement or not. Have gotten spectacular results without the vest using cameras like the Sony Z1, Z5, Ex1r etc. I may need to rebalance and clean the system since its not quite perfect for my DSLR, 5D right now

May 28th, 2016, 03:15 PM	#14
Slavik Boyechko Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Corvallis, OR Posts: 67	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly I think any stabilizer would work for what you're looking to do - basically add some camera movement to a singer/musician who is mostly staying in one spot. But the benefit of the right gimbal with a lightweight camera/lens setup is you can hold it for a long time without tiring your hands/wrists. And without wearing bulky chest or arm additions. I just shot an outside tutorial video where my camera guy pointed a Pilotfly H2 with a Canon XC10 on me for pretty much a whole day, no sweat. And no jitters. The H2 can take a higher load capacity (4.5lb) than other lightweight gimbals, but a 5D with a lens may be pushing close to that. Mostly I've been using the Letus Helix Jr. with a C100 and 10-18mm or 18-135mm, and that combo is amazingly easy to use for long periods of time. Here's one music video where I used it for a similar reason as your music video, just add slight motion to a singer/musician. Adia Victoria - "Heathen" - On The Road At SXSW - YouTube But many gimbals are not that ergonomic and end up tiring you as much as a Glidecam, though it's your upper arm area that gets exhausted instead of your wrists. Which is why a few gimbal shooters now add an EasyRig to take the load off on longer shoots. I'd give the Helix Jr. a serious look first, and then the Pilotfly H2 or Nebula 4200 or Came-TV lightweight gimbals, depending on your camera/lens weight. Cheers, Slavik

May 28th, 2016, 03:39 PM	#15
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Re: Best way to shoot this.....Steadicam or Gyro Stabalizer DS1 Beholder or PilotFly Nice Work! So the Pilotfly H2 has better ergonomics then some of the other gimbals out there? I am just waiting for it to be available and see more test footage I guess. Sounds awesome so far though. Unfortunately the Canon 5Diii on my Glidecam 4000 is heavy and hard on my back. Wish I had a lighter system. A large unit like that requires a lot of weight to keep it steady unfortunately is seems like. :(