Newbie needs Stabilizer help!

Charles Papert · April 24th, 2005, 01:43 PM

Ed:

It really has to do with the design of the arm. A non-linear arm such as the Magiqcam, Glidecam etc. will not dampen the effects of vertical travel nearly as well as a linear arm. The heavier the load, the less critical this distinction becomes as the factor of inertia becomes more prevalent (which is why the rig always becomes more stable with more weight onboard). The only reason I can see to change springs would be if your desired payload was too light for the current spring configuration, and adding more weight was out of the question.

Erik Brul · April 24th, 2005, 01:54 PM

Charles thanks for your kind words !!!

Rgds, Erik

Matthew Wilson · April 24th, 2005, 04:07 PM

Hi Charles,
I undrestand what you mean about the arms, but I'm still not sure I understand what makes one non-linear vs. linear. Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Erik,
I haven't had any noise coming from the arm except one time at the elbow. I put a coiuple drops of oil on it and it went away. I lubed the arm joints with a teflon-based product I got from the local hardware store. Here's a picture:

http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-vid...-flow-lube.jpg

3-in-1 il comes in differnt packages but looks like this:

http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-video/3-in-1-oil.jpg

As far as putting more weight on, I swapped out the Bogen quick release for a couple of Bogen 3419 micrometric sliding plates. These are meant for macro focusing on stills but work great for the Magiqcam because they allow fine adjustment for balancing quickly. They also add about 1 kg to the top. I drilled two holes in the stock aluminum mounting plate that was normally used for the horizontal adjustment and attached the bottom sliding plate with two screws. If you wanted more weight, all you have to do is replace the aluminum piece with a steel plate of desired thickness and drill two holes in it to fasten it to the top of the sled. If you use the micrometric sliding plates, you can just bolt the steel plate down tot he top of the sled and not worry about needing to adjust it, since the sliding plates will gove you all the adjustment you need. Here's a couple pictures of my setup:

http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-vid...ng-plate-1.jpg

http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-vid...ng-plate-2.jpg

The black knurled knob gives fine adjustment. The brass knob locks the plate. There is also a lever release that allows quick movement. I'm going to try and load mine up with some more weight and see if that helps the bouncing at all.

Regards,
Matthew

Ed Liew · April 24th, 2005, 08:07 PM

i've read from hbs and steadicam forum that there are pro and con to too much oiling on the rig. the good thing is it reduce friction thus less noise and so on. the not so good thing is, oil collect dust. and to my experience, in hot weather, the oil might even leak.

heavier lot does help but with my 6kg setup, i still experience the pogoing effect. simply said, its my fault.

hi matthew,
any word from john?

ed

Matthew Wilson · April 28th, 2005, 02:10 PM

Hi All,
I have good news. I Fedexed my gimbal back to Magiqcam on Monday to get repaired and I just got it back today, which is really great because I've got my first real shoot with it Saturday. Bottom line, problem solved! I was able to balance the sled very well in less than 5 minutes. Took it for a quick test drive and it feels much better. Stays balanced much better and I can slide the gimbal on the post and it stays pretty much in balance (something it wouldn't do before). I will have to test it more this evening, but I am quite happy at this point. Kudos to John for the great service and quick turnaround. Thanks to you all for helping me as well.

Ed, if your gimbal has the same sizing problems mine did, I would encourage you to CALL John at the number on their website. He really took care of me and I'm sure replacing the gimbal tube will solve your balancing problems and make flying much easier.

Charles King · April 28th, 2005, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Wilson

Ed, if your gimbal has the same sizing problems mine did, I would encourage you to CALL John at the number on their website. He really took care of me and I'm sure replacing the gimbal tube will solve your balancing problems and make flying much easier.

Matthew, I'm happy for you but the really issue in Ed's situation is that he lives outside the US and that takes time and money sending back the rig and waiting for it to be returned. As Ed stated before, the frieght alone is a put off. You got yours quick because you live in the states. Ed lives in Malaysia.

Leigh Wanstead · April 28th, 2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Wilson

Hi All,
I have good news. I Fedexed my gimbal back to Magiqcam on Monday to get repaired and I just got it back today, which is really great because I've got my first real shoot with it Saturday. Bottom line, problem solved! I was able to balance the sled very well in less than 5 minutes. Took it for a quick test drive and it feels much better. Stays balanced much better and I can slide the gimbal on the post and it stays pretty much in balance (something it wouldn't do before). I will have to test it more this evening, but I am quite happy at this point. Kudos to John for the great service and quick turnaround. Thanks to you all for helping me as well.

Hi Matthew,

Glad that you solve your problem. Can you check if you still has footstep problem shown in your video?

Regards
Leigh

Ed Liew · April 29th, 2005, 03:53 AM

hi matthew,
certainly is good to know that everything work out. i have send john an email with two video files attached showing my problem gimbal. will update you guys with the outcome.

hi charles k,
as for the shipping expenses, guess its just my luck. only wish to have a working rig. i'm still going ahead with the plan to made a new gimbal with the help of a friend here and you folks at hbs. thanks charles k.

ed

Charles King · April 29th, 2005, 07:59 AM

No problem Ed. Just concerrn about your issue. I hate things like that. Keep us updated.

Ed Liew · April 29th, 2005, 09:22 AM

will do charles k and thank you again :o)

ed

Matthew Wilson · May 1st, 2005, 04:35 PM

Leigh,
Though the gimbal is fixed and the rig operates much better now. I'm afraid that the footsteps issue is still there. I don't know whether or not practice will improve this but it seems that, as Chrles P. pointed out, this is probably an inherent design issue in lesser expensive rigs, though I would love to hear from someone regarding how this can be dealt with by design. Now that the new HBS site is up I think I'll try and pick their collective brains and see what, if anything, can be done. I must say though, that for the money, the Magiqcam still rocks. Except for slow moving closeup foreground moves, it appears very useful and well worth the relatively small investment. I'm sure that practice will only make it better also.

BTW, how does your arm deal with the footstep bounce? Does it eliminate it?

Leigh Wanstead · May 1st, 2005, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Wilson

Leigh,
Though the gimbal is fixed and the rig operates much better now. I'm afraid that the footsteps issue is still there. I don't know whether or not practice will improve this but it seems that, as Chrles P. pointed out, this is probably an inherent design issue in lesser expensive rigs, though I would love to hear from someone regarding how this can be dealt with by design. Now that the new HBS site is up I think I'll try and pick their collective brains and see what, if anything, can be done. I must say though, that for the money, the Magiqcam still rocks. Except for slow moving closeup foreground moves, it appears very useful and well worth the relatively small investment. I'm sure that practice will only make it better also.

BTW, how does your arm deal with the footstep bounce? Does it eliminate it?

Hi Matthew,

I did not have an opportunity to try any other stablizer, so I can't say anything about that. CP is an expert user on this, so I guess he is right.

I did not feel the footstep bounce in my video, maybe I do not have the experience to tell. Maybe you can help me to check if I have that problem too in the following video I shot yesterday using JVC GY-DV5000 with Fujinon S20x6.4BRM-SD lense. Sorry for the big file size.

wmv format
file size around 92mb

http://www.salenz.com/movie/2005_5_1.wmv

I just follow this video to train myself everyday. 8 ) I spent an hour a day to practise as I have a daytime job as a programmer and I do not have lots of time to practise.

I follow the advice CP gave me to slightly touch the post and the handle for both hands. It works great. ;-)

Regards
Leigh

Mikko Wilson · May 1st, 2005, 05:04 PM

Leigh... once again.. file size!

92megs is way too big, even for a Broadband connection.
even with a 1mbps connection (not all that comon) running at full speed that would take over 12mintues to download.

how long is the video? get it below 20 megs...

- Mikko

Ed Liew · May 1st, 2005, 08:49 PM

hi matthew,
any chance of seeing some photo of the fixed gimbal?

hi leigh,
which stabilizer are you using?

ed

Leigh Wanstead · May 1st, 2005, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Liew

hi leigh,
which stabilizer are you using?

ed

Hi ed,

Thank you for asking.

I manufacture stablizer myself and hope to release it soon.

Regards
Leigh

April 24th, 2005, 01:43 PM	#61
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Ed: It really has to do with the design of the arm. A non-linear arm such as the Magiqcam, Glidecam etc. will not dampen the effects of vertical travel nearly as well as a linear arm. The heavier the load, the less critical this distinction becomes as the factor of inertia becomes more prevalent (which is why the rig always becomes more stable with more weight onboard). The only reason I can see to change springs would be if your desired payload was too light for the current spring configuration, and adding more weight was out of the question. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

April 24th, 2005, 01:54 PM	#62
Erik Brul New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Almere, The Netherlands Posts: 17	Charles thanks for your kind words !!! Rgds, Erik __________________ Almere, The Netherlands Shoot and Flying with : Panasonic AG-DVX100A, Magiqcam IIA rig, Jerry Hill Steadicam arm raincovers. Editing Avid xpress pro and FCP on Ibook G4

April 24th, 2005, 04:07 PM	#63
Matthew Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 259	Hi Charles, I undrestand what you mean about the arms, but I'm still not sure I understand what makes one non-linear vs. linear. Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated. Hi Erik, I haven't had any noise coming from the arm except one time at the elbow. I put a coiuple drops of oil on it and it went away. I lubed the arm joints with a teflon-based product I got from the local hardware store. Here's a picture: http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-vid...-flow-lube.jpg 3-in-1 il comes in differnt packages but looks like this: http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-video/3-in-1-oil.jpg As far as putting more weight on, I swapped out the Bogen quick release for a couple of Bogen 3419 micrometric sliding plates. These are meant for macro focusing on stills but work great for the Magiqcam because they allow fine adjustment for balancing quickly. They also add about 1 kg to the top. I drilled two holes in the stock aluminum mounting plate that was normally used for the horizontal adjustment and attached the bottom sliding plate with two screws. If you wanted more weight, all you have to do is replace the aluminum piece with a steel plate of desired thickness and drill two holes in it to fasten it to the top of the sled. If you use the micrometric sliding plates, you can just bolt the steel plate down tot he top of the sled and not worry about needing to adjust it, since the sliding plates will gove you all the adjustment you need. Here's a couple pictures of my setup: http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-vid...ng-plate-1.jpg http://www.jewsfortruth.org/test-vid...ng-plate-2.jpg The black knurled knob gives fine adjustment. The brass knob locks the plate. There is also a lever release that allows quick movement. I'm going to try and load mine up with some more weight and see if that helps the bouncing at all. Regards, Matthew __________________ MW

April 28th, 2005, 02:10 PM	#65
Matthew Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 259	Hi All, I have good news. I Fedexed my gimbal back to Magiqcam on Monday to get repaired and I just got it back today, which is really great because I've got my first real shoot with it Saturday. Bottom line, problem solved! I was able to balance the sled very well in less than 5 minutes. Took it for a quick test drive and it feels much better. Stays balanced much better and I can slide the gimbal on the post and it stays pretty much in balance (something it wouldn't do before). I will have to test it more this evening, but I am quite happy at this point. Kudos to John for the great service and quick turnaround. Thanks to you all for helping me as well. Ed, if your gimbal has the same sizing problems mine did, I would encourage you to CALL John at the number on their website. He really took care of me and I'm sure replacing the gimbal tube will solve your balancing problems and make flying much easier. __________________ MW

April 29th, 2005, 07:59 AM	#69
Charles King Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: sweden Posts: 795	No problem Ed. Just concerrn about your issue. I hate things like that. Keep us updated. __________________ Charles 'What we perceive to be may not be what we believe to be.'

April 24th, 2005, 08:07 PM	#64
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	i've read from hbs and steadicam forum that there are pro and con to too much oiling on the rig. the good thing is it reduce friction thus less noise and so on. the not so good thing is, oil collect dust. and to my experience, in hot weather, the oil might even leak. heavier lot does help but with my 6kg setup, i still experience the pogoing effect. simply said, its my fault. hi matthew, any word from john? ed

April 29th, 2005, 03:53 AM	#68
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	hi matthew, certainly is good to know that everything work out. i have send john an email with two video files attached showing my problem gimbal. will update you guys with the outcome. hi charles k, as for the shipping expenses, guess its just my luck. only wish to have a working rig. i'm still going ahead with the plan to made a new gimbal with the help of a friend here and you folks at hbs. thanks charles k. ed

April 29th, 2005, 09:22 AM	#70
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	will do charles k and thank you again :o) ed

May 1st, 2005, 04:35 PM	#71
Matthew Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 259	Leigh, Though the gimbal is fixed and the rig operates much better now. I'm afraid that the footsteps issue is still there. I don't know whether or not practice will improve this but it seems that, as Chrles P. pointed out, this is probably an inherent design issue in lesser expensive rigs, though I would love to hear from someone regarding how this can be dealt with by design. Now that the new HBS site is up I think I'll try and pick their collective brains and see what, if anything, can be done. I must say though, that for the money, the Magiqcam still rocks. Except for slow moving closeup foreground moves, it appears very useful and well worth the relatively small investment. I'm sure that practice will only make it better also. BTW, how does your arm deal with the footstep bounce? Does it eliminate it? __________________ MW

May 1st, 2005, 05:04 PM	#73
Mikko Wilson Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Juneau, Alaska, USA Posts: 624	Leigh... once again.. file size! 92megs is way too big, even for a Broadband connection. even with a 1mbps connection (not all that comon) running at full speed that would take over 12mintues to download. how long is the video? get it below 20 megs... - Mikko __________________ Mikko Wilson - Steadicam Owner / Operator - Juneau, Alaska, USA +1 (907) 321-8387 - mikkowilson@hotmail.com - www.mikkowilson.com

May 1st, 2005, 08:49 PM	#74
Ed Liew Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Malaysia Posts: 226	hi matthew, any chance of seeing some photo of the fixed gimbal? hi leigh, which stabilizer are you using? ed