Newbie needs Stabilizer help!

[K. Clark]

Hey Matthew,

Yes indeed it is good news and I do appreciate your keeping us in the loop. Although I’ve never spoken to John personally, I have had a nice conversation with his wife. From all the comments I read about them, most are very positive and they sound like great people to work with. I know all to well how difficult running a cottage industry can be. Particularly the after sale customer service end of the stick. It can be so time consuming that it makes moving the business forward difficult to impossible. So I applaud Animagique for sticking by their product and supporting post sales in a timely way. It also sounds like this problem is isolated somewhat and perhaps not chiastic of all their new gimbals.

Your new sample footage is a vast improvement! You were able to track 180 degrees around a subject while maintaining a level horizon. IMHO very well done for just a few hours on the stick! Clearly you have spent due diligence in balancing your rig and been practicing not over controlling it. Looks like your shadow made a few cameos as well. LOL. OK, now you need to flip over to low mode and track real tight so we can see the dirt flying off the girls feet in slowmo as they run base lines! Somebody cue up the Chariots of Fire music! ;)

Seriously though, just out of curiosity what lens were you flying on your XL2 for those shots? Was it the Canon 3X or something else?

[Gev Babit]

Yeah the footage looks good Matthew!
I ordered the Magiqcam so I was worried for a sec there, but it looks good and that is with the busted gimbal and couple hours of practice. Good job!

-Gev

[Matthew Wilson]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I was using the 20X lens. I tried tighter shots with it but it's going to take a lot more practice. It was a little windy out there as well and the rig would blow around a bit. I realized right away that inital balance is so important, and it's not real easy to fine tune with the sliding plate and paltform that most of these priced rigs have. You guys might want to check out the Bogen 3419 Micrometric sliding plates. I bought to of them from Adorama for $80 each and they really make balancing far more easy. They have mounting plate which can be adjusted with screw thread for fine tuning. Two of them can fasten together at 90 degrees to give you fore-aft and side to side control. I just replaced the Bogen quick release that came on the Magiqcam with these and "voila," fine balance adjustment. I told John about them. Maybe he will incorporate something like that in the future.

What's cool too is that they allow you to make adjustments on the fly. Like the stuff I posted. My LCD monitor battery died within 10 minutes of my starting to shoot. Of course I was too stupid to have brought a spare, so I had to pop open the color VF on the XL2 and use that. Not to good, but it was better than nothing. Anyway, popping the VF up changed the balance completely; however, I was quickly able to compensate for it with the 3419's. I'd say they're more than worth $160.

[Erik Brul]

Hi there Mathew,
It's Erik from the Netherlands. I have the same problems that you have experienced consider the so called po-ing problem.

I useing the Rig since august 2004 and started with a JVC GY-DV500 camera on top and below the monitor + the marshall battery and a np1 battery on top of the marshall bat to get it balanced ok.
As far as I know, (forgot to keep this tape footage), i did not have any problem with po-ing during walking. In fact it looked damn good that time.. only had to pull both springs to the maxium to get the load right.

Now i have dropped down from the JVC camera and bought a Panasonic AG-DVX100 camera. Ofcourse this camera weight is a lot less and so i have put a Glidecam lcd4 monitor on the bottom of the sled and use a small battery to power this. (weights only 50 grams or so).
At the battery place i have a only a np1 holder complete with a dead np1 battery to get the static balance.
I have read many many entries of Charles P and Charles K which both mention to put more mass on the sled, i think in mine case more mass at the top of the sled like a steel plate of 5.6 lbs or something like that.

At the moment i don't have the plate yet, so no good drop time for me. Simply because the bottom of the sled is more havier then the top.

I have just useing the rig (total of 10 hours of practice orso) to shoot some memorial footage (2e worldwar 1940 - 1945) in the Netherlands.
I notice the po-ing effect just as you described.

Looking at your latest footage, your po-ing seems to be gone ?
What was for you the solution to avoid this problem ?

Charles, if i put more mass like a steel plate under the camera and on top of the sled + pulling the springs down so that both sections of the arm will be like horizontal or maybe below that.. will this avoid mentioned problem ?

I have uploaded 2 files which shows the same problem with the so called po-ing :

- Here i walk down 5 steps of stairs and turn arround the memorial :

http://home.hccnet.nl/ebrul/goeasy/bigmemorial.mov


- Here i walk along my wife.. here you see the po-ing much less because the girl (LOL) keeps your attention so you don't pay attention to the rest of the frame ?

http://home.hccnet.nl/ebrul/goeasy/gabriellawalking.mov

PLS also notice the sounds of the arm.. I already mentioned this a while ago and John advised me to use some houseoil for the joints... (what is houseoil ?)
Is it the same oil you use for your sewingmachine to make some new clothes ?

Also sorry for the big files,

Hope to hear from you all....

A newbie from Holland, rgds, Erik

[Charles Papert]

Erik:

The video looks good, I don't see any evidence of pogo-ing, the term I use to refer to bouncing as a result of footsteps showing up through the system. The main thing I think you should focus on is your horizons, which are tend ing to exhibit a slow roll from one side to the other; this is an operating condition which is very common. Are you using a fluid level on your rig? If not, try mounting one on the monitor (true it to the camera by placing another at the camera stage and making sure both agree. Try walking straight towards a subject without your operating hand on the post, and watch the bubble closely. Now repeat with the hand restored to the post. Is the bubble exhibiting more activity with your hand in place? If so, you are over-controlling the rig (trying to make it go level rather than letting it do it's thing), so try to pay attention to what is going on there and focus your attention to getting rock-solid horizons.

[Leigh Wanstead]

Hi Erik Brul,

You need to train like this. 8 )

Regards
Leigh

[Erik Brul]

Hi Charles and Leigh,

Thanks for both replies.. I thought the pogo-ing effect was show during the walk down and by the war - monument.. To me it seems the same little bounce (seeing the footsteps) like Matthew described.
I have another video which shows a walk move arround a grave stone (sort of speak) which indicates the pogo-ing effect much more. I really see here the footsteps so pls take a look at this video (sorry 20mb file)
I don't have enough webserver space so i will replace the 2 files with this particular file.

I know that some things like horizontal level etc is due operator error. But hey, only a few hours of real practice to far. Good idea about a fluid level .. I will look for this..

The file :

http://home.hccnet.nl/ebrul/goeasy/w...ndmemorial.mov

thanx, Erik

[Matthew Wilson]

Leigh,
That's hilarious! Thanks for sharing.

Hey Eric,
Your first two clips looked pretty good. Your third clip showed it. For me, the effect is worse the closer objects are to the lens and the slower I move, which makes sense geometrcially, but I'd really like to find a way to reduce it as much as possible, besides just going wide angle all the time. I think you are probably right about the greater sled weight being better, and of course, practice. BTW, how is your gimbal? Is it tight on the post at the top?

As far as oiling the rig, I asked John about this and he said just put some 3-in-1 type oil or lubricant (household oil) on the arm joints where the teflon washers are once in a while. I tried it today but it did'nt help my bouncing too much.

[Erik Brul]

Hi Matthew,
Thanks.. your latest video was also good looking and very nice level !

Hope btw that Charles also looks at mine latest update and see the bouncing..
On the steadicamforum they mentioned some plates to put extra weight on the sled.. i have already emailed mike if he has a plate left for me.

Now maybe a stupid question :

Can anyone who's living in the USA (like you for example Matthew) post me a picture of this socalled household oil and also the store where you can buy it ?
This because i'm in the USA (Florida) from 29th april till 15 may and want to buy this oil myself to solve this sounds from the arm.

Matthew, are you useing this oil just to solve the bouncing problem or do you have the same 'sound' problems from the arm ?

Regards, Erik

[Greg Boston]

Erik,

"3-in-1" is a brand name for a lightweight machine oil sold here in the U.S. I am sure you have some equivalent oil sold under a different name. This oil is clear, has low viscosity, and is commonly used to oil sewing machines, typewriters, tools, and other such items.

Hope this helps,

-gb-

[Erik Brul]

thanks Greg.. rest me to ask the final question :

Which store sells this oil ? Hopefully a store which is also available in Orlando and surrounding places...

Erik

[Charles Papert]

3-in-1 is a common product found in probably any hardware store in the U.S.

That last video did demonstrate more of the effect, yes. But it does look good, especially for only a few hours of practice! Keep it up, Erik!

As far as this issue goes overall, the best you can hope to do is minimize this effect. The design of the Magiqcam arm is a simple one which keeps the cost down, but is going to be more springy than a Flyer arm (for instance), which will results in the footsteps showing up. A good firm grip on the vertical travel (via the hand on the gimbal, not on the post) will help a bit; walking as lightly as possible as if shooting handheld will also help. Detune the springs slightly so that you are having to partially hold the camera up to the desired height.

[Ed Liew]

Hi Charles P,
Can you explain more on how the our hand holding the gimbal could help in reducing the pogoing effect? Also, by detuning the spring, i find holding the camera up to the desire height is very difficult with a 6kg setup - well still no where near what you operate. can we set the sled higher just to compensite this?

ed

[Charles Papert]

Ed:

The idea is that you are dampening the springiness of the rig's arm by absorbing some of the bounce with your own arm.

You only need to detune a little, so that the arm hangs perhaps one-third or halfway down. You will only be holding part of the weight up with your hands. Certainly it is more tiring, but for critical shots where the pogoing effect may be a real killer, it's a useful trick. My first feature was with an Arri BL4 camera, a real bruiser--it overloaded my 3A arm and I spent six weeks having to hold it up through long takes. I think the rig weighed close to 80 lbs, yuck.

[Ed Liew]

hi Charles P,
and i'm complaining so much with a 6kg camera. anyway, would it help if we change the springs in the arm?

ed