Check out my home made stabilizer!!! =)

Leigh Wanstead · January 19th, 2005, 09:19 PM

I think USA is a wonderful world. Mass market. 8 )

Charles Papert · January 19th, 2005, 09:41 PM

Arthur, I give you lots of points for humility and positive attitude!

I can't speak to the finer points of your vest andn arm, but in case you happen to go back to the drawing board, it's very crucial that they vertical sections of the arm remain as close to vertical as possible. I'm sure you've noticed a tendency for the rig to try to pull away from you, so you have to expend significant energy reigning it back in; this is the reason. I'm guessing this is partly due to flex within the arm sections and the hanress, but mostly the angle at which the arm exits the harness.

Also, FYI; the true test of a stabilizer is not, believe it or not, what it looks like during a running shot, but how it performs during very slow steps. And it's actually harder to operate these, too!

Arthur To · January 19th, 2005, 11:24 PM

hmm, interesting, thanks for the tip

ill have to do much more practice, i'm going to shoot a wedding later (one take). haha

-arthur

Terry Thompson · January 20th, 2005, 12:22 AM

Here, Here! I agree with Charles absolutely. I find when I run (or walk fast) with my Indicam stabilizer it's easier to have fluid video than when going slow. It's like a car going over a bump...When the car goes over a bump fast you hardly notice it but when a car goes over the same bump slow, it's suspension doesn't even out the jolt as well.

Arthur,
From the pictures I have seen, your arm looks a lot like Cody's plans but connected to your back instead of a front plate. I've seen Cody's plans and his video demos and they are very nice indeed. As Charles has already stated, Cody seems to have the steadycam thing down pretty well. I've also heard that Cody's full rig is fairly heavy which would help in the stability department.

Richard,
Sorry but I'm going to pick on you but no disrespect is intended either as I have been in your shoes.

If someone had made Cody's plans (vest and arm), that would fit a Glidecam 2000 or 4000 and had offered it to me for just $800 I would have bought it. I've spent over $20,000 just on tooling, supplies, research, coatings, welding...on and on and on developing the Indicam system and to look at it you would think you could build it for a few hundred dollars. The truth be know, when you go about to develop your own system you have to do a lot, and I mean a lot, of research and learning as well as trial and error work to see which springs, bearing types, bolt types, washer types, arm lengths, materials, pop rivets, etc. will work. When you "finally" get a good prototype and test it and have it tested by others you then need to buy materials in bulk in order to produce the system economically. This is all in hopes that you will eventually sell enough of them to make a profit. (I'm just starting that part.)

An example of bulk buying is-the side release buckles that are used to connect the chest plate to the vest cost around 2.50 - 3.00 dollars each if bought from a retail store but are less than a buck each if bought in quantities of 1000. Unfortunately 1000 still adds up even though the price per part is much lower. I don't even know how many different types and sizes of springs I have in my shop but it's too many. The same goes for bearings and one has to buy all these parts at the higher prices because you don't want to load up on something that might not work.

Then there's the patent thing. If you have a new way of making something that's different than what everyone else has done you would want to work on the patent to protect your invention which is another can of worms. I just went through that whole patent pending thing a couple of weeks ago and had to draw the whole system and then draw the parts of it that that I believed were patentable with labels, figures, original patents with differences, descriptions, etc. There goes another few weeks of work as well as the money to file. (By the way, it's not a fun thing)

Sorry this is so long but it's in defense of Arthur, myself, and all others like us who are working on these systems in hopes of helping fellow videographers take better shots.

In conclusion here is a story: After the new world was discovered, many told Christopher Columbus that it wasn't such a big thing that he had done and that anyone could have discovered America (I know about the Viking thing). Columbus then took an egg and asked if any of them could stand it on it's end. After they all tried and failed they said it couldn't be done. Columbus then tapped the egg on it's end breaking the shell just enough to stand the egg up and stated "Once I have done it, anyone can do it." The moral of the story is research and developement does matter!

I'll wait to write more after I am severely chastised.

Thanks for reading my book...

Terry

Arthur To · January 20th, 2005, 03:07 AM

nono i didnt mind the length

that was relaly encouraging, and insightful too. yea it took me a long time to get things down and going.

i was 15 when i staretd the research, and its been 3 years (Almost) and NOW it flies perfectly. (well as good as i want it, and as good as it shows up on the video.)

=)

-arthur

Richard Lewis · January 20th, 2005, 07:52 AM

I understand the above points, but I still don’t understand that you can proclaim to make it fly perfectly, when your not even operating the stabilizer that’s connected to it correctly.
It would seem to me that your research is based on ideas that resulted form an incorrectly operated rig in the first place. That’s my only point.

On a different subject...

Terry, what do you recon of the new Glidecam product that is very similar to yours? I think it’s meant to be a vest and arm system.
Casey Visco wrote...

"Smooth Shooter. This is a very compact, completely redesigned SINGLE section arm, designed to be used with either a 2000 or 4000 Pro."

"it appears at this point that the V-8 will principally be replaced by a Smooth Shooter/4000 Pro combination. Testing has shown that this will, in many ways, be a marked improvement over the V-8."

Terry Thompson · January 20th, 2005, 11:50 AM

Richard,

I haven't seen the Smooth Shooter/4000 pro (I guess most of us haven't) but I can bet it's an improvement on the V8. I tried the V8 and it worked well but I liked my system better as it was much more comfortable and has two articulated arms. The whole system also fits into the patent pending backpack / vest.

I do like the guys at Glidecam and feel they have made many good products. I guess I'll see their new stuff at NAB this year.

I do agree with you Richard that Arthur (and most of the rest of us) need better steadycam shooting skills. I suppose the true test of any stabilization system would be to have a professional (like one of the Charles') test it out and see how well it does. That is what I hope to do when I go to the Videomaker Expo West in Feb. I would like to meet up with Charles P. and let him put my stabilizer through it's paces. I'm sure he'll like it but I'm also sure he will have improvements he would like to see made. It all boils down to time and money.

Terry

Arthur To · January 20th, 2005, 01:23 PM

you guys are going to video maker expo west too?!! so is charles?!?

i am too, i am going on saturday, can we meet or anything just to say hi and stuff?

can i meet charles? (the guy from homebuiltstabilizer website?)

let me know
-arthur

Richard Lewis · January 20th, 2005, 02:35 PM

I'm sure he's talking about Mr Papert. Unless Mr King plans on flying over from Europe. :D

I guess you'll just have to put up with Charles P, I'm sure you could think of something to ask him.

edit: Arthur, just checked out your profile, says that you own a V16...why you messing around with homebuilts then?
It's not just an excuse to promote your stabilizer that your selling is it? (I have a suspicious mind)

Charles Papert · January 20th, 2005, 02:47 PM

Nice dry Mancunian wit, Richard (me mum's from Didsbury, as it turns out).

Richard Lewis · January 20th, 2005, 03:04 PM

Ahh Didsbury, I know it well. I now know why you scooted off to America :P

Terry Thompson · January 20th, 2005, 04:20 PM

O.K. you guys, knock it off with the private jokes or let us in on it.

Terry

Sui Juris · January 29th, 2005, 01:36 PM

It looks like a slapped together version
of CODY DEEGAN's stabilizer.

www.codydeegan.com

Jon Omiatek · March 5th, 2005, 05:16 PM

I totally agree. Go to Cody's website, buy the how to manual and build your own. Costs about 150-200 for everything plus $40 the manual and it's very will written and has great pictures. I saw one of his designs go on ebay for 1800 the other day.

That is a far cry from 800. Go to www.homebuiltstabilizers.com and check out the wealth of information.

Jon

Lars Gustav · March 6th, 2005, 04:29 AM

I agree with what jon says. go to HBS and check out the info. Especially on the forum where you can learn the technical side of it all. Believe me those guys know what they are talkin about. One thing about these guys are they are very helpfull and always willing to help.

If you can, and should is get cody's book as well as charles book. He has one that is called 'things to know before building a full rig'

I bought it and the info in there will definately help you understand the steadicam and any stabilizer better. I think most will agree with me. Hope this helps.

Remember Charles king once said its' never easy to build a stabilizer and in his books he states why. Then again it always depends on what you are after. most will probably diagree but i think Charles Papert will agree.

January 19th, 2005, 09:41 PM	#17
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Arthur, I give you lots of points for humility and positive attitude! I can't speak to the finer points of your vest andn arm, but in case you happen to go back to the drawing board, it's very crucial that they vertical sections of the arm remain as close to vertical as possible. I'm sure you've noticed a tendency for the rig to try to pull away from you, so you have to expend significant energy reigning it back in; this is the reason. I'm guessing this is partly due to flex within the arm sections and the hanress, but mostly the angle at which the arm exits the harness. Also, FYI; the true test of a stabilizer is not, believe it or not, what it looks like during a running shot, but how it performs during very slow steps. And it's actually harder to operate these, too! __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 19th, 2005, 11:24 PM	#18
Arthur To Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cerritos, CA Posts: 78	hmm hmm, interesting, thanks for the tip ill have to do much more practice, i'm going to shoot a wedding later (one take). haha -arthur __________________ xL1s

January 20th, 2005, 12:22 AM	#19
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	I second Charles and why a system costs so much! Here, Here! I agree with Charles absolutely. I find when I run (or walk fast) with my Indicam stabilizer it's easier to have fluid video than when going slow. It's like a car going over a bump...When the car goes over a bump fast you hardly notice it but when a car goes over the same bump slow, it's suspension doesn't even out the jolt as well. Arthur, From the pictures I have seen, your arm looks a lot like Cody's plans but connected to your back instead of a front plate. I've seen Cody's plans and his video demos and they are very nice indeed. As Charles has already stated, Cody seems to have the steadycam thing down pretty well. I've also heard that Cody's full rig is fairly heavy which would help in the stability department. Richard, Sorry but I'm going to pick on you but no disrespect is intended either as I have been in your shoes. If someone had made Cody's plans (vest and arm), that would fit a Glidecam 2000 or 4000 and had offered it to me for just $800 I would have bought it. I've spent over $20,000 just on tooling, supplies, research, coatings, welding...on and on and on developing the Indicam system and to look at it you would think you could build it for a few hundred dollars. The truth be know, when you go about to develop your own system you have to do a lot, and I mean a lot, of research and learning as well as trial and error work to see which springs, bearing types, bolt types, washer types, arm lengths, materials, pop rivets, etc. will work. When you "finally" get a good prototype and test it and have it tested by others you then need to buy materials in bulk in order to produce the system economically. This is all in hopes that you will eventually sell enough of them to make a profit. (I'm just starting that part.) An example of bulk buying is-the side release buckles that are used to connect the chest plate to the vest cost around 2.50 - 3.00 dollars each if bought from a retail store but are less than a buck each if bought in quantities of 1000. Unfortunately 1000 still adds up even though the price per part is much lower. I don't even know how many different types and sizes of springs I have in my shop but it's too many. The same goes for bearings and one has to buy all these parts at the higher prices because you don't want to load up on something that might not work. Then there's the patent thing. If you have a new way of making something that's different than what everyone else has done you would want to work on the patent to protect your invention which is another can of worms. I just went through that whole patent pending thing a couple of weeks ago and had to draw the whole system and then draw the parts of it that that I believed were patentable with labels, figures, original patents with differences, descriptions, etc. There goes another few weeks of work as well as the money to file. (By the way, it's not a fun thing) Sorry this is so long but it's in defense of Arthur, myself, and all others like us who are working on these systems in hopes of helping fellow videographers take better shots. In conclusion here is a story: After the new world was discovered, many told Christopher Columbus that it wasn't such a big thing that he had done and that anyone could have discovered America (I know about the Viking thing). Columbus then took an egg and asked if any of them could stand it on it's end. After they all tried and failed they said it couldn't be done. Columbus then tapped the egg on it's end breaking the shell just enough to stand the egg up and stated "Once I have done it, anyone can do it." The moral of the story is research and developement does matter! I'll wait to write more after I am severely chastised. Thanks for reading my book... Terry __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

January 20th, 2005, 03:07 AM	#20
Arthur To Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cerritos, CA Posts: 78	wow nono i didnt mind the length that was relaly encouraging, and insightful too. yea it took me a long time to get things down and going. i was 15 when i staretd the research, and its been 3 years (Almost) and NOW it flies perfectly. (well as good as i want it, and as good as it shows up on the video.) =) -arthur __________________ xL1s

January 20th, 2005, 07:52 AM	#21
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	I understand the above points, but I still don’t understand that you can proclaim to make it fly perfectly, when your not even operating the stabilizer that’s connected to it correctly. It would seem to me that your research is based on ideas that resulted form an incorrectly operated rig in the first place. That’s my only point. On a different subject... Terry, what do you recon of the new Glidecam product that is very similar to yours? I think it’s meant to be a vest and arm system. Casey Visco wrote... "Smooth Shooter. This is a very compact, completely redesigned SINGLE section arm, designed to be used with either a 2000 or 4000 Pro." "it appears at this point that the V-8 will principally be replaced by a Smooth Shooter/4000 Pro combination. Testing has shown that this will, in many ways, be a marked improvement over the V-8." __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

January 19th, 2005, 09:19 PM	#16
Leigh Wanstead Trustee Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NZ Posts: 1,276	I think USA is a wonderful world. Mass market. 8 )

January 20th, 2005, 11:50 AM	#22
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Richard, I haven't seen the Smooth Shooter/4000 pro (I guess most of us haven't) but I can bet it's an improvement on the V8. I tried the V8 and it worked well but I liked my system better as it was much more comfortable and has two articulated arms. The whole system also fits into the patent pending backpack / vest. I do like the guys at Glidecam and feel they have made many good products. I guess I'll see their new stuff at NAB this year. I do agree with you Richard that Arthur (and most of the rest of us) need better steadycam shooting skills. I suppose the true test of any stabilization system would be to have a professional (like one of the Charles') test it out and see how well it does. That is what I hope to do when I go to the Videomaker Expo West in Feb. I would like to meet up with Charles P. and let him put my stabilizer through it's paces. I'm sure he'll like it but I'm also sure he will have improvements he would like to see made. It all boils down to time and money. Terry __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

January 20th, 2005, 01:23 PM	#23
Arthur To Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cerritos, CA Posts: 78	o WOW you guys are going to video maker expo west too?!! so is charles?!? i am too, i am going on saturday, can we meet or anything just to say hi and stuff? can i meet charles? (the guy from homebuiltstabilizer website?) let me know -arthur __________________ xL1s

January 20th, 2005, 02:35 PM	#24
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	I'm sure he's talking about Mr Papert. Unless Mr King plans on flying over from Europe. :D I guess you'll just have to put up with Charles P, I'm sure you could think of something to ask him. edit: Arthur, just checked out your profile, says that you own a V16...why you messing around with homebuilts then? It's not just an excuse to promote your stabilizer that your selling is it? (I have a suspicious mind) __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

January 20th, 2005, 02:47 PM	#25
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Nice dry Mancunian wit, Richard (me mum's from Didsbury, as it turns out). __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

January 20th, 2005, 03:04 PM	#26
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Ahh Didsbury, I know it well. I now know why you scooted off to America :P __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

January 20th, 2005, 04:20 PM	#27
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	O.K. you guys, knock it off with the private jokes or let us in on it. Terry __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

January 29th, 2005, 01:36 PM	#28
Sui Juris Tourist Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1	It looks like a slapped together version of CODY DEEGAN's stabilizer. www.codydeegan.com

March 5th, 2005, 05:16 PM	#29
Jon Omiatek Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 755	I totally agree. Go to Cody's website, buy the how to manual and build your own. Costs about 150-200 for everything plus $40 the manual and it's very will written and has great pictures. I saw one of his designs go on ebay for 1800 the other day. That is a far cry from 800. Go to www.homebuiltstabilizers.com and check out the wealth of information. Jon

March 6th, 2005, 04:29 AM	#30
Lars Gustav Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sweden Posts: 33	I agree with what jon says. go to HBS and check out the info. Especially on the forum where you can learn the technical side of it all. Believe me those guys know what they are talkin about. One thing about these guys are they are very helpfull and always willing to help. If you can, and should is get cody's book as well as charles book. He has one that is called 'things to know before building a full rig' I bought it and the info in there will definately help you understand the steadicam and any stabilizer better. I think most will agree with me. Hope this helps. Remember Charles king once said its' never easy to build a stabilizer and in his books he states why. Then again it always depends on what you are after. most will probably diagree but i think Charles Papert will agree. __________________ Lars