Video shot by my stablizer[2]

Terry Thompson · February 16th, 2005, 02:49 PM

Well, we can look at it this way...Leigh's video is getting a bit better with each new installment.

The way you can tell if he's just out for sales or really wants positive feedback is if his video is improving (sorry to talk about you behind your computer, Leigh). I guess I'll take a look at the latest video and see if it is better than the last one.

Just watched your latest video. You've gone from "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" to just "The Good and The Bad" and that's an improvement.

The Good...vertical stability is fairly good, much better than in the past. The color and exposure are good. You seem to be walking smoother. This is a definite improvement.

The Bad...horizontal stability needs some help. You can see regular side to side movement. If I were to guess I would say your stabilizer is the vertical post type without the gimbal, arm, and vest - like a Steady Tracker or FlyPod. Am I right???
The video lacks purpose other than to show camera stability. I'd like to see something interesting-not a long shot of your road and house. (House looks good) Hey! Cars are driving on the wrong side of the road!
The end shot of your dog should be as rock solid as possible, like if it was on a tripod, and not waving around.

How about your next video showing a rugby match from the players POV. Now that would be interesting! Seriously, a video showing kids playing basketball or some other sport would be a good place to show your camera stabilization video.

Leigh, when we put our videos up for suggestions and get them we all hope to improve from those suggestions. That's what I do anyway. Charles (and others) has given me many real good suggestions about my video and my rig and I have tried to incorporate them. If not, I'm not taking advantage of a Master Steadicam Operator. Charles is good...real good!

Believe me, I feel lucky to have this forum.

In a while I'll put a short video up for comments. I hope to be a better opperator because of them.

Tery

Richard Lewis · February 16th, 2005, 05:29 PM

I absolutely agree Terry. This forum is designed to help and support everyone who uses it. We are lucky to have such a diverse range of people to educate on every level of DV.

I applaud you and Charles for taking time out to download, play, and write extensive reviews about peoples footage in an effort to help them improve.

The thing that gets me though, is the response, or lack of it that you receive from the people you are trying to help.
I was just aware of Leigh’s gratuitous video postings without seemingly any gratitude for your efforts.
(Maybe I’m reading the situation wrong, but that’s what it looks like from where I am)

Terry btw, from what I’ve seen of your product, it looks like a nice bit of original and practical kit and I wish you all the luck in the world.

All the best,

Rick.

Terry Thompson · February 16th, 2005, 06:18 PM

Thanks Richard,

Always working on making a better rig. Maybe someday we'll even get around to marketing it. It's ready for sale now but we still want to make it even a better value by creating our own sled and doing a couple of things on the arm to fine-tune it.

Since the Indicam system was originally built to be used with Glidecam 2000 and 4000 sleds our newest competition is the Glidecam Smooth Shooter. It will probably be well built (haven't seen it yet) and a good value. It is a single arm whereas our system is a dual arm. When Charles P. tried our system out he said the arm "tracked well" which means the two arms work together well. Many times, with two articulated arms one will move and then the other will catch up. Move...catch up and so on. I think the term for that is "stair stepping". With a single arm you don't have to worry about that so it's easier to build.

Back to Leigh's video. It is improving and that's good. I, like you, wish he would make further comments on the suggestions he is receiving rather than just posting a new video for new comments. I also think he should let us know what his system is like i.e. full rig, hand held w/gimbal, hand held w/out gimbal, or Steadicam JR. type.

Time to go. I have to find some parts I have hidden somewhere.

Tery

P.S. Richard, what is you steadycam background?

Leigh Wanstead · February 17th, 2005, 12:03 PM

Hi Richard, Terry,

Thank you very much.

The device which I am using is a full rig stablizer and I diy myself. I am an inexperience cameraman and keen to learn everything.

Regards
Leigh

Richard Lewis · February 17th, 2005, 02:22 PM

Hi Terry, lets see…my Steadicam background...

Not too involved actually, I’ve used a Steadicam ProVid on a few music videos and other projects (nothing mainstream, just college work) I’m lucky because my college is wonderfully equipped with lots of broadcast equipment, which they don’t mind lending out.

I've owned a Glidecam 2000 for a few years and even with the crappy off centred gimbal that it has, I’ve been able to produce some excellent results, much better than any of the stuff on those demo videos they ship out...I don’t know why they bother. The only thing that I thought was descent, was that footage going through the video exhibition shot on a V16 or V20 I think it was.

Anyway, I would love to share some footage with you, but I have no way of posting it. If someone would offer to host it, I would be more than happy to hear your opinions.

Rick.

James Connors · February 18th, 2005, 03:00 AM

I agree with the demo video thing, I've ranted on another forum about this before.. why try to sell up to a multi-thousand dollar product when the videos are shot by people who simply either don't know what they're doing, or have dead links! The Magiqcam video is probably better than most, and its nothing great (I just like the fact it cuts between the steadicam operator and another camera showing the guy operating) and is obviously captured from VHS. Yeuch! That doesn't convince me to part with my money, I'm sorry!

Design the product, build the product, get a good demo shot then you'll sell it in my opinion.

Terry Thompson · February 18th, 2005, 12:04 PM

Richard,

Here is a way of sending up to a 100MB video to me or any other person who has an email address. It's called dropload.com and it's free. Cool!

You have to sign up first to send videos but not to receive them. I'll send you a video shot by Charles P. using my !ndicam when we met at the Videomaker Expo this year. He set up the shot quickly and did a great job considering he was using a $1500 system and not his $100,000 rig. Charles is a great guy and I really appreciated it a lot that he would take his time to come over and help me.

Anyway, I'll send you this video so you can see how dropload.com works. If you have a quick internet connection it won't take too long to download a 3.51 MB .avi file. Coming up I'm going to work on inserting shots of him doing this short video into the video - kind of like the scenes behind the scene.

Keep and eye out for the email notification from dropload.com providing I have your correct email address.

Tery

Richard Lewis · February 18th, 2005, 12:10 PM

Kewl stuff. I await your email.

Leigh Wanstead · February 18th, 2005, 12:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Richard Lewis :
Anyway, I would love to share some footage with you, but I have no way of posting it. If someone would offer to host it, I would be more than happy to hear your opinions.

Rick. -->>>

Hi Richard,

It is not difficult and dear to post your video. I pay http://www.phpwebhosting.com/ $9.95 a month to hosting my website. Just for your information.

Regards
Leigh

Richard Lewis · February 18th, 2005, 02:18 PM

Cheers for the link Leigh, but I don’t need a sustained web host, as I won’t use it.

Terry Thompson · February 19th, 2005, 01:06 AM

Richard,

I have tried twice today to send video to dropload.com but it isn't working. I don't know if it's my computer or theirs. I'll try tomorrow.

Tery

Boy do I feel dumb. I just found out I was trying to send a 211 MB file. DUH!

You shoud have an email and file waiting for you by the time you read this.

Tery

Richard Lewis · February 19th, 2005, 01:09 PM

Cheers Terry, nice little clip, although my player was tripping up a bit. That’s what I get for spending all my money on the editing computer lol.

I would like to see the behind the scenes clip too, if you ever get around to posting it.

I haven’t got enough time tonight, to register for that thingy (have to finish off a long overdue script)
I shall sort something out next week and send a clip to you.

Cheers again,

Charles Papert · February 20th, 2005, 05:39 AM

Hey Terry, send me that clip too! I'd be curious to see what our little experiment looks like.

Terry Thompson · February 21st, 2005, 12:22 AM

Charles,

I'll send the shot immediately.

I sent the clip to a guy and he commented on the "shakyness" at the start of the clip as well as seeing some "footsteps" at the end when you were moving real slowly. I let him know that I, as the editor, put too much of the start in and that the clip should have started just before you began moving.

See if you notice any "footsteps" in the clip. If there are any it's because you didn't have time to get used to the feeling of such a light rig. Also I'm sure a $105,000 rig should "look" better than a $1500 one. Let's see, that's 0.0142857142857 of the cost of your system...Captain! (raised eyebrow)

You did a great job and I really appreciate your help.

A question...You said you thought the arm should hang just below horizontal during use. Is that correct and do most steadycam systems work the same way? Why does setting the arm below horizontal accomplish? I would like to know as it will increase my knowledge base.

Another question...Do you think the Smooth Shooter, or any other single arm, will work as well as a dual arm providing they are both smooth? I know that the tracking is important and thanks for letting me know about it.

Tery

By-the-way, I'm working on your suggestions.

Charles Papert · February 21st, 2005, 11:03 AM

Got the clip, thanks Terry.

Footsteps--yeah, there are some, particularly noticeable at the end when I had that railing in the foreground. Mostly that's a function of not being used to the rig, as you pointed out. The rest of it is due to the arm design, and that is going to be inherent with any non-linear design, that they will not eliminate the bounce entirely (the Flyer is the only arm I have seen that can do the job as well as the "pro" arms.).

As far as the arm hanging slightly below horizontal, it seems to smooth out the action a bit--an over-cranked arm will be stiffer and/or more bouncy.

I'm not sure if a single section arm can compete with a dual arm because, as described above, all the single section arms I've seen were non-linear.

best,

Chas

February 16th, 2005, 02:49 PM	#61
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Well, we can look at it this way...Leigh's video is getting a bit better with each new installment. The way you can tell if he's just out for sales or really wants positive feedback is if his video is improving (sorry to talk about you behind your computer, Leigh). I guess I'll take a look at the latest video and see if it is better than the last one. Just watched your latest video. You've gone from "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" to just "The Good and The Bad" and that's an improvement. The Good...vertical stability is fairly good, much better than in the past. The color and exposure are good. You seem to be walking smoother. This is a definite improvement. The Bad...horizontal stability needs some help. You can see regular side to side movement. If I were to guess I would say your stabilizer is the vertical post type without the gimbal, arm, and vest - like a Steady Tracker or FlyPod. Am I right??? The video lacks purpose other than to show camera stability. I'd like to see something interesting-not a long shot of your road and house. (House looks good) Hey! Cars are driving on the wrong side of the road! The end shot of your dog should be as rock solid as possible, like if it was on a tripod, and not waving around. How about your next video showing a rugby match from the players POV. Now that would be interesting! Seriously, a video showing kids playing basketball or some other sport would be a good place to show your camera stabilization video. Leigh, when we put our videos up for suggestions and get them we all hope to improve from those suggestions. That's what I do anyway. Charles (and others) has given me many real good suggestions about my video and my rig and I have tried to incorporate them. If not, I'm not taking advantage of a Master Steadicam Operator. Charles is good...real good! Believe me, I feel lucky to have this forum. In a while I'll put a short video up for comments. I hope to be a better opperator because of them. Tery __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

February 16th, 2005, 05:29 PM	#62
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	I absolutely agree Terry. This forum is designed to help and support everyone who uses it. We are lucky to have such a diverse range of people to educate on every level of DV. I applaud you and Charles for taking time out to download, play, and write extensive reviews about peoples footage in an effort to help them improve. The thing that gets me though, is the response, or lack of it that you receive from the people you are trying to help. I was just aware of Leigh’s gratuitous video postings without seemingly any gratitude for your efforts. (Maybe I’m reading the situation wrong, but that’s what it looks like from where I am) Terry btw, from what I’ve seen of your product, it looks like a nice bit of original and practical kit and I wish you all the luck in the world. All the best, Rick. __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

February 16th, 2005, 06:18 PM	#63
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Thanks Richard, Always working on making a better rig. Maybe someday we'll even get around to marketing it. It's ready for sale now but we still want to make it even a better value by creating our own sled and doing a couple of things on the arm to fine-tune it. Since the Indicam system was originally built to be used with Glidecam 2000 and 4000 sleds our newest competition is the Glidecam Smooth Shooter. It will probably be well built (haven't seen it yet) and a good value. It is a single arm whereas our system is a dual arm. When Charles P. tried our system out he said the arm "tracked well" which means the two arms work together well. Many times, with two articulated arms one will move and then the other will catch up. Move...catch up and so on. I think the term for that is "stair stepping". With a single arm you don't have to worry about that so it's easier to build. Back to Leigh's video. It is improving and that's good. I, like you, wish he would make further comments on the suggestions he is receiving rather than just posting a new video for new comments. I also think he should let us know what his system is like i.e. full rig, hand held w/gimbal, hand held w/out gimbal, or Steadicam JR. type. Time to go. I have to find some parts I have hidden somewhere. Tery P.S. Richard, what is you steadycam background? __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

February 17th, 2005, 02:22 PM	#65
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Hi Terry, lets see…my Steadicam background... Not too involved actually, I’ve used a Steadicam ProVid on a few music videos and other projects (nothing mainstream, just college work) I’m lucky because my college is wonderfully equipped with lots of broadcast equipment, which they don’t mind lending out. I've owned a Glidecam 2000 for a few years and even with the crappy off centred gimbal that it has, I’ve been able to produce some excellent results, much better than any of the stuff on those demo videos they ship out...I don’t know why they bother. The only thing that I thought was descent, was that footage going through the video exhibition shot on a V16 or V20 I think it was. Anyway, I would love to share some footage with you, but I have no way of posting it. If someone would offer to host it, I would be more than happy to hear your opinions. Rick. __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

February 18th, 2005, 12:04 PM	#67
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	www.dropload.com Richard, Here is a way of sending up to a 100MB video to me or any other person who has an email address. It's called dropload.com and it's free. Cool! You have to sign up first to send videos but not to receive them. I'll send you a video shot by Charles P. using my !ndicam when we met at the Videomaker Expo this year. He set up the shot quickly and did a great job considering he was using a $1500 system and not his $100,000 rig. Charles is a great guy and I really appreciated it a lot that he would take his time to come over and help me. Anyway, I'll send you this video so you can see how dropload.com works. If you have a quick internet connection it won't take too long to download a 3.51 MB .avi file. Coming up I'm going to work on inserting shots of him doing this short video into the video - kind of like the scenes behind the scene. Keep and eye out for the email notification from dropload.com providing I have your correct email address. Tery __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

February 17th, 2005, 12:03 PM	#64
Leigh Wanstead Trustee Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NZ Posts: 1,276	Hi Richard, Terry, Thank you very much. The device which I am using is a full rig stablizer and I diy myself. I am an inexperience cameraman and keen to learn everything. Regards Leigh

February 18th, 2005, 03:00 AM	#66
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	I agree with the demo video thing, I've ranted on another forum about this before.. why try to sell up to a multi-thousand dollar product when the videos are shot by people who simply either don't know what they're doing, or have dead links! The Magiqcam video is probably better than most, and its nothing great (I just like the fact it cuts between the steadicam operator and another camera showing the guy operating) and is obviously captured from VHS. Yeuch! That doesn't convince me to part with my money, I'm sorry! Design the product, build the product, get a good demo shot then you'll sell it in my opinion.

February 18th, 2005, 12:10 PM	#68
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Kewl stuff. I await your email. __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

February 18th, 2005, 12:56 PM	#69
Leigh Wanstead Trustee Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NZ Posts: 1,276	<<<-- Originally posted by Richard Lewis : Anyway, I would love to share some footage with you, but I have no way of posting it. If someone would offer to host it, I would be more than happy to hear your opinions. Rick. -->>> Hi Richard, It is not difficult and dear to post your video. I pay http://www.phpwebhosting.com/ $9.95 a month to hosting my website. Just for your information. Regards Leigh

February 18th, 2005, 02:18 PM	#70
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Cheers for the link Leigh, but I don’t need a sustained web host, as I won’t use it. __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

February 19th, 2005, 01:06 AM	#71
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	dropload Richard, I have tried twice today to send video to dropload.com but it isn't working. I don't know if it's my computer or theirs. I'll try tomorrow. Tery Boy do I feel dumb. I just found out I was trying to send a 211 MB file. DUH! You shoud have an email and file waiting for you by the time you read this. Tery __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

February 19th, 2005, 01:09 PM	#72
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	Cheers Terry, nice little clip, although my player was tripping up a bit. That’s what I get for spending all my money on the editing computer lol. I would like to see the behind the scenes clip too, if you ever get around to posting it. I haven’t got enough time tonight, to register for that thingy (have to finish off a long overdue script) I shall sort something out next week and send a clip to you. Cheers again, __________________ Richard Lewis. Steadicam Owner / Operator

February 20th, 2005, 05:39 AM	#73
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Hey Terry, send me that clip too! I'd be curious to see what our little experiment looks like. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

February 21st, 2005, 12:22 AM	#74
Terry Thompson Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, CA Posts: 578	Videomaker clip Charles, I'll send the shot immediately. I sent the clip to a guy and he commented on the "shakyness" at the start of the clip as well as seeing some "footsteps" at the end when you were moving real slowly. I let him know that I, as the editor, put too much of the start in and that the clip should have started just before you began moving. See if you notice any "footsteps" in the clip. If there are any it's because you didn't have time to get used to the feeling of such a light rig. Also I'm sure a $105,000 rig should "look" better than a $1500 one. Let's see, that's 0.0142857142857 of the cost of your system...Captain! (raised eyebrow) You did a great job and I really appreciate your help. A question...You said you thought the arm should hang just below horizontal during use. Is that correct and do most steadycam systems work the same way? Why does setting the arm below horizontal accomplish? I would like to know as it will increase my knowledge base. Another question...Do you think the Smooth Shooter, or any other single arm, will work as well as a dual arm providing they are both smooth? I know that the tracking is important and thanks for letting me know about it. Tery By-the-way, I'm working on your suggestions. __________________ He's only mostly sDEADy. sort of from "The Princess Bride" www.indicam.com

February 21st, 2005, 11:03 AM	#75
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Got the clip, thanks Terry. Footsteps--yeah, there are some, particularly noticeable at the end when I had that railing in the foreground. Mostly that's a function of not being used to the rig, as you pointed out. The rest of it is due to the arm design, and that is going to be inherent with any non-linear design, that they will not eliminate the bounce entirely (the Flyer is the only arm I have seen that can do the job as well as the "pro" arms.). As far as the arm hanging slightly below horizontal, it seems to smooth out the action a bit--an over-cranked arm will be stiffer and/or more bouncy. I'm not sure if a single section arm can compete with a dual arm because, as described above, all the single section arms I've seen were non-linear. best, Chas __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com