A Gyroscope for about 100 bucks ??? at DVinfo.net

Anmol Mishra · July 14th, 2009, 06:47 AM

Max-X Product Information
It is a gyroscope made for bows (the stuff used for Archery).
Anyone ever tried it out ??

Dave Gish · July 14th, 2009, 07:22 AM

Interesting...

Too bad they don't tell you the voltage.

Bill Koehler · July 14th, 2009, 08:11 AM

Actually they do specify voltage...

If you go to the ordering page here Max-X Ordering Page you see that they are all 12V batteries and chargers.

Giroud Francois · July 14th, 2009, 08:40 AM

really looks like a motor with a simple iron disc , not even a case around it.
must be very noisy (from video point of view).
but for those needing a cheap, quick and dirty help for stabilizing , that could be ok.

Brian Boyko · July 14th, 2009, 02:15 PM

How would you attach this to a camera?

Paul Mailath · July 14th, 2009, 04:51 PM

I wonder if you couldn't make up a hand bracket to support the camera with the gyro on the bottom, not unlike the weights on the bottom of the Merlin

could be an interesting exercise but what about the noise? - it can't be quiet

Rich Greb · July 14th, 2009, 04:52 PM

It's doubtful that the Max-X gyro would be very useful to videographers. Its intended use is to improve bow target shooting (it's too noisy for hunters). Because it has no real gimbal action it is not a real gyro, but I suspect the "vibration dampening" cantelever mount allows for some pseudo precession to provide some degree of gyro action.

If one were to try to use this with a camera, I would suggest mounting it vertically to stabilize tilt and roll. You would have to make an adaptor for the camera 1/4-20 mount because the bolt on the Max-X is a 5/6 -24. But for sure it will behave strangely, unless you just want to stabilize a locked off shot. Besides the noise (described about like an electric toothbrush) it draws about 5 amps at 12 volts, thus the lithium packs that weigh 2.3 to 3.6 lbs depending on capacity. And there is vibration.

Rich Greb
Handheld stabilizer for video cameras - Blackbird, GS2 - Camera Motion Research

Anmol Mishra · July 14th, 2009, 06:23 PM

I was actually thinking of buying 4 of them..
2 each for 2-axes and using them as balance for a Merlin type rig..

Rich Greb · July 14th, 2009, 06:52 PM

Anmol, I'll assume you are serious otherwise the joke's on me. The 4 so called gyros would weigh almost 4 lbs not including mounting hardware (can't possibly get a reasonable balance). The batteries would weigh almost 9 lbs. The cost would be perhaps $800. It will make a lot of noise and vibrate badly, and probably give you vertigo. But if you are right about the 4th axis you just might experience a time warp. I would try it on a test stand at a safe distance first.

Rich Greb
Handheld stabilizer for video cameras - Blackbird, GS2 - Camera Motion Research

Anmol Mishra · July 14th, 2009, 06:57 PM

Not 8 of them - but 4 of them. 2 on each balance side. Total of 400 bucks. But still, not sure if they would work.
The batteries will not go on the rig - they can be worn on the belt.
What other gyro-stabilizer option is there for 4-500 bucks ??

Anmol Mishra · July 14th, 2009, 06:58 PM

Also, Lipo batteries would weight far less. Maybe 1-2 kilos (2-4 pounds) for 12V 10Ah.

Charles Papert · July 14th, 2009, 07:23 PM

Anmol, the real question is--would this actually work and provide a beneficial result. Even the gold standard, Kenyan gyros, are finicky to deal with and have serious restrictions in use. I'm about to use a set for a shoot on an aircraft carrier deck next week and it is my first time in over 10 years as I have never been much of a fan.

Rich Greb · July 14th, 2009, 07:36 PM

OK, you're serious.

I didn't mean to imply you would use 8. The $800 cost I mentioned included the four 5000 mah lithium batteries you would also have to buy (the very thought of a system drawing 20 amps at 12 volts makes me cringe). One gimbaled gyro can stabilize one main axis of rotation. The minimum number of gimbaled gyros required to effectively stabilize the three axes of rotation, tilt, roll and pan is three. You don't need 4. In fact if you only want to control tilt and roll you only need 2. The gyro locations or spin axes cannot be anywhere, or you get unwanted gyro torques.

You are right, there are no commercial solutions I'm aware of in the $500 range for gyro stabilization. Efficient motors with precisely balanced flywheels are expensive. Kenyon Labs has been selling gyros for nearly 40 years I think. These are proven gyros, well engineered and reliable, but they do have long start up and shut down times, and are not very efficient because they are based on very old technology. They are normally used in non-ambulatory situations where they reduce shake. They are sometimes configured on vest and arm stabilizer sleds. And they are very expensive and pretty heavy if you include the batteries. A minimal configuration of a one KS6 gyro (each Kenyon unit actually has two gyros) typically used on a sled would cost perhaps $2800 for the gyro, batteries and charger kit.

Rich Greb

Rich Greb · July 14th, 2009, 07:41 PM

OK, you're serious.

I didn't mean to imply you would use 8. The $800 cost I mentioned included the four 5000 mah lithium batteries you would also have to buy (the very thought of a system drawing 20 amps at 12 volts makes me cringe). One gimbaled gyro can stabilize one main axis of rotation. The minimum number of gimbaled gyros required to effectively stabilize the three axes of rotation, tilt, roll and pan is three. You don't need 4. In fact if you only want to control tilt and roll you only need 2. The gyro locations or spin axes cannot be anywhere, or you get unwanted gyro torques.

You are right, there are no commercial solutions I'm aware of in the $500 range for gyro stabilization. Efficient motors with precisely balanced flywheels are expensive. Kenyon Labs has been selling gyros for nearly 40 years I think. These are proven gyros, well engineered and reliable, but they do have long start up and shut down times, and are not very efficient because they are based on very old technology. They are normally used in non-ambulatory situations where they reduce shake. They are sometimes configured on vest and arm stabilizer sleds. And they are very expensive and pretty heavy if you include the batteries. A minimal configuration of a one KS6 gyro (each Kenyon unit actually has two gyros) typically used on a sled would cost perhaps $2800 for the gyro, batteries and charger kit.

Rich Greb

Anmol Mishra · July 15th, 2009, 09:04 AM

I think you misunderstood me. Take a 3-axis stabilizer like the Steadicam Merlin. On the bottom you put counterweights on 2 sides to reduce movement.
On these sides, I was thinking of using these motors in 2-axes for reducing movement as well.
Hence 4 of them, 2 per side in 2 axes.
They will definitely resist movement, and their weight would be an advantage here too - lowering the center of gravity.

July 14th, 2009, 06:47 AM	#1
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	A Gyroscope for about 100 bucks ??? Max-X Product Information It is a gyroscope made for bows (the stuff used for Archery). Anyone ever tried it out ??

July 14th, 2009, 02:15 PM	#5
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	How would you attach this to a camera? __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

July 14th, 2009, 04:51 PM	#6
Paul Mailath Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Coast - NSW, Australia Posts: 1,606	I wonder if you couldn't make up a hand bracket to support the camera with the gyro on the bottom, not unlike the weights on the bottom of the Merlin could be an interesting exercise but what about the noise? - it can't be quiet __________________ Cheers - Paul M. www.perbenyik.com

July 14th, 2009, 04:52 PM	#7
Rich Greb Sponsor: Camera Motion Research Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 57	Ah, If only it was that easy! It's doubtful that the Max-X gyro would be very useful to videographers. Its intended use is to improve bow target shooting (it's too noisy for hunters). Because it has no real gimbal action it is not a real gyro, but I suspect the "vibration dampening" cantelever mount allows for some pseudo precession to provide some degree of gyro action. If one were to try to use this with a camera, I would suggest mounting it vertically to stabilize tilt and roll. You would have to make an adaptor for the camera 1/4-20 mount because the bolt on the Max-X is a 5/6 -24. But for sure it will behave strangely, unless you just want to stabilize a locked off shot. Besides the noise (described about like an electric toothbrush) it draws about 5 amps at 12 volts, thus the lithium packs that weigh 2.3 to 3.6 lbs depending on capacity. And there is vibration. Rich Greb Handheld stabilizer for video cameras - Blackbird, GS2 - Camera Motion Research

July 14th, 2009, 06:23 PM	#8
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	2-axes I was actually thinking of buying 4 of them.. 2 each for 2-axes and using them as balance for a Merlin type rig..

July 14th, 2009, 07:22 AM	#2
Dave Gish Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Riverdale, NJ Posts: 468	Interesting... Too bad they don't tell you the voltage.

July 14th, 2009, 08:11 AM	#3
Bill Koehler Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alpharetta, Georgia, USA Posts: 760	Actually they do specify voltage... If you go to the ordering page here Max-X Ordering Page you see that they are all 12V batteries and chargers.

July 14th, 2009, 08:40 AM	#4
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	really looks like a motor with a simple iron disc , not even a case around it. must be very noisy (from video point of view). but for those needing a cheap, quick and dirty help for stabilizing , that could be ok.

July 14th, 2009, 06:52 PM	#9
Rich Greb Sponsor: Camera Motion Research Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 57	Anmol, I'll assume you are serious otherwise the joke's on me. The 4 so called gyros would weigh almost 4 lbs not including mounting hardware (can't possibly get a reasonable balance). The batteries would weigh almost 9 lbs. The cost would be perhaps $800. It will make a lot of noise and vibrate badly, and probably give you vertigo. But if you are right about the 4th axis you just might experience a time warp. I would try it on a test stand at a safe distance first. Rich Greb Handheld stabilizer for video cameras - Blackbird, GS2 - Camera Motion Research

July 14th, 2009, 06:57 PM	#10
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Not 8 of them - but 4 of them. 2 on each balance side. Total of 400 bucks. But still, not sure if they would work. The batteries will not go on the rig - they can be worn on the belt. What other gyro-stabilizer option is there for 4-500 bucks ??

July 14th, 2009, 06:58 PM	#11
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	Lipo batteries Also, Lipo batteries would weight far less. Maybe 1-2 kilos (2-4 pounds) for 12V 10Ah.

July 14th, 2009, 07:23 PM	#12
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Anmol, the real question is--would this actually work and provide a beneficial result. Even the gold standard, Kenyan gyros, are finicky to deal with and have serious restrictions in use. I'm about to use a set for a shoot on an aircraft carrier deck next week and it is my first time in over 10 years as I have never been much of a fan. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

July 14th, 2009, 07:36 PM	#13
Rich Greb Sponsor: Camera Motion Research Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 57	OK, you're serious. I didn't mean to imply you would use 8. The $800 cost I mentioned included the four 5000 mah lithium batteries you would also have to buy (the very thought of a system drawing 20 amps at 12 volts makes me cringe). One gimbaled gyro can stabilize one main axis of rotation. The minimum number of gimbaled gyros required to effectively stabilize the three axes of rotation, tilt, roll and pan is three. You don't need 4. In fact if you only want to control tilt and roll you only need 2. The gyro locations or spin axes cannot be anywhere, or you get unwanted gyro torques. You are right, there are no commercial solutions I'm aware of in the $500 range for gyro stabilization. Efficient motors with precisely balanced flywheels are expensive. Kenyon Labs has been selling gyros for nearly 40 years I think. These are proven gyros, well engineered and reliable, but they do have long start up and shut down times, and are not very efficient because they are based on very old technology. They are normally used in non-ambulatory situations where they reduce shake. They are sometimes configured on vest and arm stabilizer sleds. And they are very expensive and pretty heavy if you include the batteries. A minimal configuration of a one KS6 gyro (each Kenyon unit actually has two gyros) typically used on a sled would cost perhaps $2800 for the gyro, batteries and charger kit. Rich Greb

July 14th, 2009, 07:41 PM	#14
Rich Greb Sponsor: Camera Motion Research Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 57	OK, you're serious. I didn't mean to imply you would use 8. The $800 cost I mentioned included the four 5000 mah lithium batteries you would also have to buy (the very thought of a system drawing 20 amps at 12 volts makes me cringe). One gimbaled gyro can stabilize one main axis of rotation. The minimum number of gimbaled gyros required to effectively stabilize the three axes of rotation, tilt, roll and pan is three. You don't need 4. In fact if you only want to control tilt and roll you only need 2. The gyro locations or spin axes cannot be anywhere, or you get unwanted gyro torques. You are right, there are no commercial solutions I'm aware of in the $500 range for gyro stabilization. Efficient motors with precisely balanced flywheels are expensive. Kenyon Labs has been selling gyros for nearly 40 years I think. These are proven gyros, well engineered and reliable, but they do have long start up and shut down times, and are not very efficient because they are based on very old technology. They are normally used in non-ambulatory situations where they reduce shake. They are sometimes configured on vest and arm stabilizer sleds. And they are very expensive and pretty heavy if you include the batteries. A minimal configuration of a one KS6 gyro (each Kenyon unit actually has two gyros) typically used on a sled would cost perhaps $2800 for the gyro, batteries and charger kit. Rich Greb

July 15th, 2009, 09:04 AM	#15
Anmol Mishra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 401	I think you misunderstood me. Take a 3-axis stabilizer like the Steadicam Merlin. On the bottom you put counterweights on 2 sides to reduce movement. On these sides, I was thinking of using these motors in 2-axes for reducing movement as well. Hence 4 of them, 2 per side in 2 axes. They will definitely resist movement, and their weight would be an advantage here too - lowering the center of gravity.