If it can go wrong, it will go wrong!! Pilot Error!

Dave Gish · September 4th, 2008, 02:00 PM

Julian,

Great to hear you got it working.

Now that you have achieved dynamic balance, maybe you could pair up with another steadi-newbie as practice partners...
SteadicamForum.com - A Community of Motion Picture Camera Stabilization Specialists
matthew pearce seems to be in your area.

This way, you don't have to bug your wife/girlfriend to get moving subjects to practice on, and you can have the other guy shoot you working your rig, which might be useful for your reel. In any case, it would get you more motivated to practice.

I'm looking to pair up with a steadi-newbie practice partner as well, only in the NYC area.

Julian Frost · September 4th, 2008, 02:29 PM

Hi Dave,

Just to make sure it wasn't a fluke(!), I set the center post all the way back in, checked for static balance, and went through your DB procedure one more time. A couple of minutes later, it's spinning flat again.

I'm a member of the Steadicam forum already and have been following that thread. As I work Friday thru Monday, it can be quite difficult to meet up with people who have "normal" schedules, unfortunately.

Dave Gish · September 4th, 2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian Frost

I'm a member of the Steadicam forum already and have been following that thread. As I work Friday thru Monday, it can be quite difficult to meet up with people who have "normal" schedules, unfortunately.

You never know what other peoples' schedules are like. Worth a try...

Julian Frost · September 5th, 2008, 12:45 PM

Dave,

I checked with Michael at Tiffen about the possibility of causing the top stage plate to bend by adding extra weights. In their testing, they noticed bending began to occur when 6 mid-weights were placed on each side of the top stage plate. Michael advised me not to add more than one pound of weights to each side of the top plate (for a total of 2 pounds), which is 1 start weight and 4 mid weights on each side. Further, Michael says having this many weights on the top stage could induce a "bounce" to the top plate during heavy use, where the mass of the weights cause the plate to flex and spring back.

I'm going to order some extra weights to see if I can get the gimbal a bit closer to the camera.

P.S. I'm *almost* ready to peel off the plastic from the monitor!

Dave Gish · September 5th, 2008, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julian Frost

Michael advised me not to add more than one pound of weights to each side of the top plate (for a total of 2 pounds), which is 1 start weight and 4 mid weights on each side.

Hi Julian,

Thanks for asking them about this - good to know.

One question: I thought each mid weight was 4 oz, and each of the smaller rounded weights are 2 oz.. So if you had 1 small rounded weight and 4 mid weights on each side, that would be 2.25 pounds total. To be clear, did Michael say 2 pounds max, or 1 start weight and 4 mid weights on each side max?

Thanks, Dave.

Julian Frost · September 5th, 2008, 04:18 PM

I checked my email correspondence and Michael says he believes the 2-pound limit would equate to about 4 mid weights and one start weight on each side. If the mid-weights are 4oz each, then maybe we should forego the end weights to be on the safe side!

Dave Gish · September 17th, 2008, 06:06 AM

Hi Julian,

Not sure if you're still having this problem, but I just saw something similar.

It turned out to be the bottom crossbar sliding around. The hex nut in the middle was a little loose. This threw off static balance every time I moved the sled. Now when I tighten it up, I test to make sure the bottom bar can't slide easily.

Not sure if this is your problem though.

Hope this helps.

Julian Frost · September 17th, 2008, 10:15 AM

While at Tiffen, we checked everything for tightness and movement, but found nothing which was loose. But that's definitely good advice anyway... always check to make sure everything is locked down correctly.

Joe Lawry · December 15th, 2008, 06:13 PM

AGHHHHH

I i think i have just come across the exact same problem as Julian had with his Pilot while trying to dynamically balance mine with my new EX1... never had the problem with my HVX however.. which is strange..

I can statically balance my rig 1 way.. and then spin it 180 degrees and the nose tilts forward.. the horizon does stay horizontal however..

I cant think of any other things that might be causing this..

Running 2 middle weights and 2 end weights on the stage.. same as my HVX setup - the cameras weigh about the same. 4 middle weights and 2 end weights on the cross bar.. 3 second drop time. Monitor and battery extended all the way out dynamically balancing (well trying) just by moving the cross bar and the top stage.

When i spin the rig the nose tilts forward and the battery goes arse up. Which is the exact same thing that happens when i spin the rig 180.

Im going to keep playing but if i cant get anything by the end of the day i'm going to have to give tiffen and my dealer an email.

What really sucks is i have a New Years eve shoot and was meant to be flying.. and it has to be an EX as we're shooting everything with them.

Right now being so isolated in NZ really sucks.

edit - photos attached. Not as bad as Julians.. but still present.

Charles Papert · December 15th, 2008, 09:02 PM

That looks like a gimbal linearity issue, Joe. Definitely contact your dealer and/or Tiffen (your dealer will likely have no clue what you are talking about).

There's no reason why you can't continue to work with the rig though. Under most circumstances you won't have to pan more than 45 degrees from straight ahead, you just rotate your body to keep within that range. Going into Don Juan and back to Missionary during a shot is relatively rare, that's when this might bite you a little but it's entirely possible to overcome this with a little more influence. Certainly the problem should be fixed but I wouldn't call this an operating dealbreaker.

Nick Tsamandanis · December 15th, 2008, 09:54 PM

Hey Joe, interesting, please let us know how you resolve your problem.

Joe Lawry · December 15th, 2008, 10:18 PM

Charles, your right, as long as i know the issue is there im sure it wont be to much of a hinderance, Its certainly not as bad as Julians issue, at least its only slightly out.

I've contacted both my Dealer and Tiffen, and have already had a response from my dealer saying they will try their best to get it fixed asap. Early next year will be fine. The new years shoot isnt that crucial steadicam wise.

I will keep everyone updated.

Dave Gish · December 16th, 2008, 07:24 AM

Hi Joe,

I hooked up with a practice partner in my area, and he had the same problem with his EX3/Pilot. He shipped it back to Steadicam back in L.A., and they said the problem was with the 2 little screws on either side of the gimbal handle. Apparently, Steadicam forgot to put lock-tight on those 2 little screws on his Pilot when it was built, so they came a little loose, and the bearings in the gimbal handle weren't working quite right.

You may be having a different problem, but it's worth checking. The screws almost look like rivets, but they have a small hex wrench hole in the middle. I checked my screws and they're tight, so I guess this is happening on only some Pilot units.

Hope this helps.

Joe Lawry · December 16th, 2008, 01:29 PM

Cheers Dave, i think i know the screws you mean.. now i just gotta find the correct kind of screw driver. In the edit suite for the next 2 days solid.. will look into it on friday.

Sean Seah · December 16th, 2008, 11:43 PM

Hi Joe, sorry to highjack yr thread but I wanted to check if u customised the RCA cable on the stage? Did u shorten it from the original?

September 4th, 2008, 02:00 PM	#31
Dave Gish Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Riverdale, NJ Posts: 468	Julian, Great to hear you got it working. Now that you have achieved dynamic balance, maybe you could pair up with another steadi-newbie as practice partners... SteadicamForum.com - A Community of Motion Picture Camera Stabilization Specialists matthew pearce seems to be in your area. This way, you don't have to bug your wife/girlfriend to get moving subjects to practice on, and you can have the other guy shoot you working your rig, which might be useful for your reel. In any case, it would get you more motivated to practice. I'm looking to pair up with a steadi-newbie practice partner as well, only in the NYC area. Last edited by Dave Gish; September 4th, 2008 at 03:04 PM.

December 15th, 2008, 06:13 PM	#39
Joe Lawry Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 418	AGHHHHH I i think i have just come across the exact same problem as Julian had with his Pilot while trying to dynamically balance mine with my new EX1... never had the problem with my HVX however.. which is strange.. I can statically balance my rig 1 way.. and then spin it 180 degrees and the nose tilts forward.. the horizon does stay horizontal however.. I cant think of any other things that might be causing this.. Running 2 middle weights and 2 end weights on the stage.. same as my HVX setup - the cameras weigh about the same. 4 middle weights and 2 end weights on the cross bar.. 3 second drop time. Monitor and battery extended all the way out dynamically balancing (well trying) just by moving the cross bar and the top stage. When i spin the rig the nose tilts forward and the battery goes arse up. Which is the exact same thing that happens when i spin the rig 180. Im going to keep playing but if i cant get anything by the end of the day i'm going to have to give tiffen and my dealer an email. What really sucks is i have a New Years eve shoot and was meant to be flying.. and it has to be an EX as we're shooting everything with them. Right now being so isolated in NZ really sucks. edit - photos attached. Not as bad as Julians.. but still present. Attached Thumbnails

December 15th, 2008, 09:02 PM	#40
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	That looks like a gimbal linearity issue, Joe. Definitely contact your dealer and/or Tiffen (your dealer will likely have no clue what you are talking about). There's no reason why you can't continue to work with the rig though. Under most circumstances you won't have to pan more than 45 degrees from straight ahead, you just rotate your body to keep within that range. Going into Don Juan and back to Missionary during a shot is relatively rare, that's when this might bite you a little but it's entirely possible to overcome this with a little more influence. Certainly the problem should be fixed but I wouldn't call this an operating dealbreaker. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

December 15th, 2008, 09:54 PM	#41
Nick Tsamandanis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 318	Hey Joe, interesting, please let us know how you resolve your problem. __________________ Nick

December 16th, 2008, 07:24 AM	#43
Dave Gish Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Riverdale, NJ Posts: 468	Hi Joe, I hooked up with a practice partner in my area, and he had the same problem with his EX3/Pilot. He shipped it back to Steadicam back in L.A., and they said the problem was with the 2 little screws on either side of the gimbal handle. Apparently, Steadicam forgot to put lock-tight on those 2 little screws on his Pilot when it was built, so they came a little loose, and the bearings in the gimbal handle weren't working quite right. You may be having a different problem, but it's worth checking. The screws almost look like rivets, but they have a small hex wrench hole in the middle. I checked my screws and they're tight, so I guess this is happening on only some Pilot units. Hope this helps. Last edited by Dave Gish; December 16th, 2008 at 09:06 AM.

September 4th, 2008, 02:29 PM	#32
Julian Frost Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California USA Posts: 576	Hi Dave, Just to make sure it wasn't a fluke(!), I set the center post all the way back in, checked for static balance, and went through your DB procedure one more time. A couple of minutes later, it's spinning flat again. I'm a member of the Steadicam forum already and have been following that thread. As I work Friday thru Monday, it can be quite difficult to meet up with people who have "normal" schedules, unfortunately.

September 5th, 2008, 12:45 PM	#34
Julian Frost Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California USA Posts: 576	Dave, I checked with Michael at Tiffen about the possibility of causing the top stage plate to bend by adding extra weights. In their testing, they noticed bending began to occur when 6 mid-weights were placed on each side of the top stage plate. Michael advised me not to add more than one pound of weights to each side of the top plate (for a total of 2 pounds), which is 1 start weight and 4 mid weights on each side. Further, Michael says having this many weights on the top stage could induce a "bounce" to the top plate during heavy use, where the mass of the weights cause the plate to flex and spring back. I'm going to order some extra weights to see if I can get the gimbal a bit closer to the camera. P.S. I'm almost ready to peel off the plastic from the monitor!

September 5th, 2008, 04:18 PM	#36
Julian Frost Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California USA Posts: 576	I checked my email correspondence and Michael says he believes the 2-pound limit would equate to about 4 mid weights and one start weight on each side. If the mid-weights are 4oz each, then maybe we should forego the end weights to be on the safe side!

September 17th, 2008, 06:06 AM	#37
Dave Gish Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Riverdale, NJ Posts: 468	Hi Julian, Not sure if you're still having this problem, but I just saw something similar. It turned out to be the bottom crossbar sliding around. The hex nut in the middle was a little loose. This threw off static balance every time I moved the sled. Now when I tighten it up, I test to make sure the bottom bar can't slide easily. Not sure if this is your problem though. Hope this helps.

September 17th, 2008, 10:15 AM	#38
Julian Frost Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California USA Posts: 576	While at Tiffen, we checked everything for tightness and movement, but found nothing which was loose. But that's definitely good advice anyway... always check to make sure everything is locked down correctly.

December 15th, 2008, 10:18 PM	#42
Joe Lawry Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 418	Charles, your right, as long as i know the issue is there im sure it wont be to much of a hinderance, Its certainly not as bad as Julians issue, at least its only slightly out. I've contacted both my Dealer and Tiffen, and have already had a response from my dealer saying they will try their best to get it fixed asap. Early next year will be fine. The new years shoot isnt that crucial steadicam wise. I will keep everyone updated.

December 16th, 2008, 01:29 PM	#44
Joe Lawry Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 418	Cheers Dave, i think i know the screws you mean.. now i just gotta find the correct kind of screw driver. In the edit suite for the next 2 days solid.. will look into it on friday.

December 16th, 2008, 11:43 PM	#45
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	Hi Joe, sorry to highjack yr thread but I wanted to check if u customised the RCA cable on the stage? Did u shorten it from the original?