Glidecam 4000Pro Balance Keeps Shifting

R. L. Appling · May 6th, 2008, 09:30 AM

That UTUBE Vid is a blast! Thanks - Its a desktop keeper!

Florin Berechet · May 6th, 2008, 10:45 AM

Hmm... I'm afraid that I might have not paid too much attention to the dynamic balance. Sean, in the movie you pointed...they say about pendulum effect and how to prevent this thing from happening (adjusting the battery or the LCD). Damn, I might have returned my Flycam 5000 for nothing. :(
Anyway, tomorrow I'll go to another dealer who brings Glidecam 2000 PRO and 4000 and over the phone they say I can bring my camcorder and try the units before buy. Works for me.
I want to use a glidecam system for wedding videos but only for a few special shots. That is why I want to purchase only the sled and ... for budget reasons :)
Chris, you say that there are some differences between Glidecam old and new models? Are there some characteristics of the gimbal to determine if it's old or new one type?

Chris Medico · May 6th, 2008, 10:58 AM

I don't have any technical info to know exactly what the differences are Florin. All I can say is my GC has a bearing that is in a collar and it appears to be pressed together. The one I saw at NAB had a gimble with a plate with screws in it that held the bearing. I don't know why the are different but only that they are.

Tonight I'll be setting up and balancing my Pilot sled and I'll rig up the GC2000 as well.

Charles Papert · May 6th, 2008, 11:06 AM

I have dubbed this the "year of dynamic balance" for the small stabilizer market because between this (excellent) video and a new awareness in the message boards about the concept, there's a lot of buzz about DB. Unfortunately there are just as many misconceptions and folks are hoping to pin down many issues with their rigs to dynamic balance problems (not to mention issues with their operating). The reality is that unless you are noticeably out of whack with dynamic balance, it won't have that much of an effect on simple shots particularly walking in a straight line--it's when one does significant pans in a shot that you might find the rig dipping one way or another. Florin, the situation you described where the rig would lose STATIC balance when the gimbal was rotated around the post had nothing to do with dynamic balance, rather a non-linear gimbal as I think we discussed. Here's the breakdown: make sure the rig is statically balanced first. Pan it 90 degrees and stop it, then repeat at 180 degrees. Does it still hang level? If not, there is an issue with the gimbal and no matter what you do with dynamic balance, it will not spin flat. If it does hang level, give it a full spin. If it starts precessing (wobbling), go through the steps to balance it dynamically. Precessing however is not the pendulum effect; that is what happens when the rig is too bottom-heavy and a fast move through space will cause the rig to kick out like a swinging pendulum.

It is important to learn how to balance one's rig for sure. Static balance is 100% critical; dynamic balance is less so, depending on the operator ("The Shining" was shot on a version of the Steadicam that turned out to be massively out of whack dynamically, although nobody knew about that then--how do those shots look to you??! pretty good, right?). A mis-aligned, non-linear or friction-laden gimbal will cause many problems. Most of all though, it's about spending the most time in the rig practicing properly, because even a perfectly tuned rig will still require a good operator to make the shots sing.

Sean Seah · May 6th, 2008, 11:32 AM

Take Charles's advise.. its GOOD ;p thks for the pointer! Florin, if u r using for weddings then maybe u might wanna consider having a small cam to be used on the merlin. Thaz what some folks do as the medium sized cams are heavy for long/intermittant shots. Means have the medium cam on handheld, and the sapre small cam on the merlin permanently.

Florin Berechet · May 6th, 2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

Pan it 90 degrees and stop it, then repeat at 180 degrees. Does it still hang level? If not, there is an issue with the gimbal and no matter what you do with dynamic balance, it will not spin flat. If it does hang level, give it a full spin. If it starts precessing (wobbling), go through the steps to balance it dynamically.

As I said a few posts ago it doesn't hang the level, even at a rotation of 45-60 degree. I believe the problem is a mis-aligned gimbal (simply physics laws) but after I saw the movie about Pilot Steady I thought maybe I was wrong. As I said, I tried another U-Flycam and the result was worse. Strange, isn't it? On the other hand, the dealer had only those 2 units on stock for a few months. Strange again. :)
However tomorrow I'll try genuine Glidecam 2000 and 4000 and of course, I'll let you all know the results.

Charles Papert · May 6th, 2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florin Berechet

As I said, I tried another U-Flycam and the result was worse. Strange, isn't it?

For what they are charging for it, no, not really.

Julian Frost · May 6th, 2008, 10:08 PM

Continuing on the "non-linear gimbal" part of this thread, I got an email from Tom at Glidecam today. They received my 4000 Pro in record time (it took just two days via USPS from Southern California to Massachussetts!) and worked on it today. He said they re-aligned the gimbal, and that when I receive it, I should be very happy with the result. There were a few other issues with the 4000 Pro which he didn't address in that email. One issue was that the telescoping section which attaches to the base plate, did not screw onto the base plate at exactly 90 degrees. When I screwed it in, I noticed the top part of the telescoping section would wobble around like crazy. This would mean that if you lower the telescoping section, the GC would move forwards, backwards or sideways, depending on how the tube was leaning.

So, it sounds like I'll be getting a linear gimbal, which should fix some of my problems. I still don't know how to get rid of the "right-sidedness" of my XH-A1 camera though, so that when the rig is held horizontally, the camera will not rotate right-side down. Or maybe this is unimportant?

Nick Tsamandanis · May 6th, 2008, 10:24 PM

Just get whoever your shooting to keep leaning to the right -)))

Florin Berechet · May 7th, 2008, 07:02 AM

"Good news everyone! :)"
Today I've purchased a brand new Glidecam 2000 PRO. The dealer was very kind and allowed me to try before buy. Well...Glidecam is something else than Flycam even if the Indians copied very well the first one. Is very well manufactured, it looks like an original product.
My first concern when trying was changing hands on handle. Nothing happened, the camera remained in the same stable balance. I would like to bring my Glidecam 2000 PRO to the previous dealer and demonstrate to him what mens a REAL stabilisation system.
Once again, what you get is what you paid for. Thanks to all folks that helped me in resolving my issue. I can't wait to use my unit at an event on Saturday. I will be back with some edited footage next week , I hope.

Sean Seah · May 7th, 2008, 10:17 AM

u have 72hrs to practise =)

Charles Papert · May 7th, 2008, 12:03 PM

Florin, glad you got your issues worked out and let's perhaps all keep this thread in mind next time someone posts "anyone have experience with the Flycam"? as that comes up every other week around here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florin Berechet

I would like to bring my Glidecam 2000 PRO to the previous dealer and demonstrate to him what mens a REAL stabilisation system.

It's slightly ironic to me to hear this said about Glidecam, but everything is relative and as long as you are happy that's what counts...have you had the chance to try a Merlin, by the way?

Florin Berechet · May 7th, 2008, 01:51 PM

I have never tried a Merlin, I'm sure that there are many other better stabilization systems than Glidecam. I only would like to demonstrate to the dealer (the one with Flycam) that he was wrong and he was trying to convince me that I didn't know how to properly balance de unit. Also he told me that is enough that the sled is balanced and I don't have to rotate it or change hands on handle. Anyway, the more arguments I was bringing the more irritated the dealer was getting. Now I am convinced of the "quality" of Flycam units because one unit can be an accident but a second one is certain bad quality.
I hope my unpleasant experience can be useful for other people

Charles Papert · May 7th, 2008, 03:39 PM

It's a rare reseller that actually understands what is involved with flying a stabilizer--none of these surprises me really.

Florin Berechet · May 12th, 2008, 10:22 AM

Hi,
As I've promised, I'm back with a video sample with my camcorder mounted on Glidecam 2000 PRO. It's not perfect, but I am very pleased. The quality of video file is not very good (the image is a little foggy when panning) but I guess it's enough to illustrate flying a camcorder.
http://www.filebox.ro/download.php?k...315680&lang=en

May 6th, 2008, 10:45 AM	#32
Florin Berechet New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 13	Hmm... I'm afraid that I might have not paid too much attention to the dynamic balance. Sean, in the movie you pointed...they say about pendulum effect and how to prevent this thing from happening (adjusting the battery or the LCD). Damn, I might have returned my Flycam 5000 for nothing. :( Anyway, tomorrow I'll go to another dealer who brings Glidecam 2000 PRO and 4000 and over the phone they say I can bring my camcorder and try the units before buy. Works for me. I want to use a glidecam system for wedding videos but only for a few special shots. That is why I want to purchase only the sled and ... for budget reasons :) Chris, you say that there are some differences between Glidecam old and new models? Are there some characteristics of the gimbal to determine if it's old or new one type? __________________ Everyday...trying to improve my technique..

May 6th, 2008, 10:58 AM	#33
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	I don't have any technical info to know exactly what the differences are Florin. All I can say is my GC has a bearing that is in a collar and it appears to be pressed together. The one I saw at NAB had a gimble with a plate with screws in it that held the bearing. I don't know why the are different but only that they are. Tonight I'll be setting up and balancing my Pilot sled and I'll rig up the GC2000 as well. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

May 6th, 2008, 11:06 AM	#34
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	I have dubbed this the "year of dynamic balance" for the small stabilizer market because between this (excellent) video and a new awareness in the message boards about the concept, there's a lot of buzz about DB. Unfortunately there are just as many misconceptions and folks are hoping to pin down many issues with their rigs to dynamic balance problems (not to mention issues with their operating). The reality is that unless you are noticeably out of whack with dynamic balance, it won't have that much of an effect on simple shots particularly walking in a straight line--it's when one does significant pans in a shot that you might find the rig dipping one way or another. Florin, the situation you described where the rig would lose STATIC balance when the gimbal was rotated around the post had nothing to do with dynamic balance, rather a non-linear gimbal as I think we discussed. Here's the breakdown: make sure the rig is statically balanced first. Pan it 90 degrees and stop it, then repeat at 180 degrees. Does it still hang level? If not, there is an issue with the gimbal and no matter what you do with dynamic balance, it will not spin flat. If it does hang level, give it a full spin. If it starts precessing (wobbling), go through the steps to balance it dynamically. Precessing however is not the pendulum effect; that is what happens when the rig is too bottom-heavy and a fast move through space will cause the rig to kick out like a swinging pendulum. It is important to learn how to balance one's rig for sure. Static balance is 100% critical; dynamic balance is less so, depending on the operator ("The Shining" was shot on a version of the Steadicam that turned out to be massively out of whack dynamically, although nobody knew about that then--how do those shots look to you??! pretty good, right?). A mis-aligned, non-linear or friction-laden gimbal will cause many problems. Most of all though, it's about spending the most time in the rig practicing properly, because even a perfectly tuned rig will still require a good operator to make the shots sing. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

May 6th, 2008, 10:24 PM	#39
Nick Tsamandanis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 318	Just get whoever your shooting to keep leaning to the right -))) __________________ Nick

May 7th, 2008, 07:02 AM	#40
Florin Berechet New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 13	"Good news everyone! :)" Today I've purchased a brand new Glidecam 2000 PRO. The dealer was very kind and allowed me to try before buy. Well...Glidecam is something else than Flycam even if the Indians copied very well the first one. Is very well manufactured, it looks like an original product. My first concern when trying was changing hands on handle. Nothing happened, the camera remained in the same stable balance. I would like to bring my Glidecam 2000 PRO to the previous dealer and demonstrate to him what mens a REAL stabilisation system. Once again, what you get is what you paid for. Thanks to all folks that helped me in resolving my issue. I can't wait to use my unit at an event on Saturday. I will be back with some edited footage next week , I hope. __________________ Everyday...trying to improve my technique..

May 6th, 2008, 09:30 AM	#31
R. L. Appling Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tehachapi, California Posts: 72	That UTUBE Vid is a blast! Thanks - Its a desktop keeper!

May 6th, 2008, 11:32 AM	#35
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	Take Charles's advise.. its GOOD ;p thks for the pointer! Florin, if u r using for weddings then maybe u might wanna consider having a small cam to be used on the merlin. Thaz what some folks do as the medium sized cams are heavy for long/intermittant shots. Means have the medium cam on handheld, and the sapre small cam on the merlin permanently.

May 6th, 2008, 10:08 PM	#38
Julian Frost Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: California USA Posts: 576	Continuing on the "non-linear gimbal" part of this thread, I got an email from Tom at Glidecam today. They received my 4000 Pro in record time (it took just two days via USPS from Southern California to Massachussetts!) and worked on it today. He said they re-aligned the gimbal, and that when I receive it, I should be very happy with the result. There were a few other issues with the 4000 Pro which he didn't address in that email. One issue was that the telescoping section which attaches to the base plate, did not screw onto the base plate at exactly 90 degrees. When I screwed it in, I noticed the top part of the telescoping section would wobble around like crazy. This would mean that if you lower the telescoping section, the GC would move forwards, backwards or sideways, depending on how the tube was leaning. So, it sounds like I'll be getting a linear gimbal, which should fix some of my problems. I still don't know how to get rid of the "right-sidedness" of my XH-A1 camera though, so that when the rig is held horizontally, the camera will not rotate right-side down. Or maybe this is unimportant?

May 7th, 2008, 10:17 AM	#41
Sean Seah Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,498	u have 72hrs to practise =)

May 7th, 2008, 01:51 PM	#43
Florin Berechet New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 13	I have never tried a Merlin, I'm sure that there are many other better stabilization systems than Glidecam. I only would like to demonstrate to the dealer (the one with Flycam) that he was wrong and he was trying to convince me that I didn't know how to properly balance de unit. Also he told me that is enough that the sled is balanced and I don't have to rotate it or change hands on handle. Anyway, the more arguments I was bringing the more irritated the dealer was getting. Now I am convinced of the "quality" of Flycam units because one unit can be an accident but a second one is certain bad quality. I hope my unpleasant experience can be useful for other people __________________ Everyday...trying to improve my technique..

May 7th, 2008, 03:39 PM	#44
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	It's a rare reseller that actually understands what is involved with flying a stabilizer--none of these surprises me really. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

May 12th, 2008, 10:22 AM	#45
Florin Berechet New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 13	Hi, As I've promised, I'm back with a video sample with my camcorder mounted on Glidecam 2000 PRO. It's not perfect, but I am very pleased. The quality of video file is not very good (the image is a little foggy when panning) but I guess it's enough to illustrate flying a camcorder. http://www.filebox.ro/download.php?k...315680&lang=en __________________ Everyday...trying to improve my technique.. Last edited by Florin Berechet; May 12th, 2008 at 03:21 PM. Reason: forget link...