In-Car Shooting (Supercars/Racecars)

Rob O'Day · December 1st, 2008, 06:25 AM

I'll get some music on that meet a couple of weeks ago, and I'll post the link on this thread.

Well, was at Brands Hatch on Sunday and tested out my 'other' solution, which was a different camera altogether !
I have worked out something for the HF11, which I'm just constructing in the evening. Not sure if it will work, but theoretically it should be a huge improvement.
It REALLY would seem that the HF11 wouldn't be the ideal choice for mounted in-car shooting, but you could get 2 camera's that would do the job for the same price :)

Mike Meier · December 10th, 2008, 11:05 PM

Camera vibration could be caused by the mount, or what the mount is mounted to, or the car itself. A heavy camera just makes things worse.

Some people use mounts that attach to the headrests of their seats. I'd expect to see a lot of camera shake in this videos. Others make simple mounts that extend from the rear deck, from behind the back seats. That can work if done well. Suction cup mounts on body panels that don't flex much can work well. Sticking them on glass works better since the glass is pretty rigid. I've used suction cup mounts on my windshield and sun roof and that worked out well.

Mostly, I use an IOPort mount that is bolted onto my harness bar. It's a good solid mounting and you can aim and tilt the camera anyway you want. The camcorder is just behind me but I can reach it to turn it off and on. When used as a camera it gives a good view out of the front window. I also use it as a VCR when using bullet cams.

Picture of my camera in its mount: http://www.kstreetstudio.com/hpde/vi...es/VidSysB.jpg

Even as solid as this mounting is, during hard cornering and braking it will aim a little left/right and up/down. You can see this in all of my videos, but I have to say it actually adds a little something to the shots. Once I shot video where I zoomed in on the GTech that is mounted on my windshield. The GTech is constantly moving around in the view, but the camera is not shaking much.

GTech video: TEAM Racing at Thunderhill, January 28, 2007. A G- Video

The reason this is happening is the car's body flexes. Some cars do more of this than others. I know a guy who had a fully caged Civic and it still flexed so much that his videos were a mess. I mounted my equipment in a friend's race Mustang, with the camcorder on his roll bar, and the results were good.

For shots from outside the car I use bullet cams. They are small, light, and not so expensive that I'd cry if I lost one. The video quality is not as good as from the camcorder, but that is another story.

I use small suction cup mounts for side and rear shots and shots from the roof of my car when using my bullet cams. They have worked very well, but a lot of that is probably because the bullet cams are so light. You do have to make sure the car is clean and dry or else one or more suction cups may let go. I tether everything in case it comes off.

External video (door and side window mount): T.E.A.M. Racing at Thunderhill, Januray 28, 2007. - Video

I also have a bullet cam mounted in my grill. The only time I have ever had a problem with it is when I forgot to replace some of the plastic clips that hold all that trim and stuff together. Otherwise, it works well and I use that camera a lot. It is low to the ground and uses a wide angle lens so it makes things look even faster, plus you can see the curbing at the apexes. It also makes it look like you war way faster than the people you pass, but also much slower than the people who pass you. Also, when you get right up on someone's bumper it still makes it look like you are still a car-length back.

One other installation that holds promise is the driver's helmet. It gives a very different feel to the whole driving experience. You get to see what the driver is looking at, almost, plus how not-smooth the laps are and how much the head leans to counter the G-forces.

Helmet cam: SAMOA Event at Thunderhill, Apr-23-2007. Last ses- Video

Sorry about the quality of the videos. I'm experimenting with the cameras and setups and audio and I am driving. That's a lot to keep track of, plus I don't get a good look or listen at the results until after I get home.

A problem I have not been able to solve is to convey to the viewer just how fast things are happening. In the video it looks pretty relaxed. I had one student (driver) come over to view the videos before his first track day and after wards he thought he knew what to expect. When he got to the track, whole different experience. The turns were much tighter and the car was much faster than he expected.

Getting good audio is also very difficult. We have to drive with both windows down so wind noise ruins the audio. Now I'm putting mic on my rear bumper and that works much better, although it could be improved. In recent efforts I use some of Premiere's audio effects to clean up the audio a bit.

I use a miniDV camera and have never had a problem with it cutting out due to vibration or G-forces (I pull a little over 1 G in some turns). I know of others using solid state cameras that do cut out. I'd expect hard drive-based cameras to have even more of a problem with this.

Rob O'Day · February 20th, 2009, 02:59 PM

I hadn't forgotten about this thread AT ALL !
I've just been very busy, and trying to sort life out.

Promise results will be up !

Bob Grant · April 1st, 2009, 05:48 AM

Bit late to the party, sorry.

A problem with OIS is you cannot actually turn it off. This is why cheaper cameras without any OIS work better in these applications. Digital stabilization can be turned right off.

OIS is a mechanical device, shake the camera enough or with enough G force and the OIS shakes around making the image really bad.

Ryan Douthit · June 13th, 2009, 08:12 PM

Because of the extreme g-forces, vibration, heat and dust, we use VIO Sport cameras for most of our in-car footage. It uses a wireless remote that syncs up to 5 recorders. That way, we can have both forward, reverse and foot-pedal views. Each unit records to a separate SD memory card and is both vibration and waterproof. So far we've recorded two crashes and we've never lost a unit.

This is something we did for ESPN. Watch the in-car footage as a rally driver hits a tree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UVqiDlKPOA

Here's the full stage in-car:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2FOnSMWObM

V.I.O. | POV.1.5M Digital Helmet Camera System | POV375 | B&H

For more pedestrian stuff, we just mount our HD A1Us onto some Bogen suction mounts.

December 1st, 2008, 06:25 AM	#31
Rob O'Day Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: UK Posts: 63	I'll get some music on that meet a couple of weeks ago, and I'll post the link on this thread. Well, was at Brands Hatch on Sunday and tested out my 'other' solution, which was a different camera altogether ! I have worked out something for the HF11, which I'm just constructing in the evening. Not sure if it will work, but theoretically it should be a huge improvement. It REALLY would seem that the HF11 wouldn't be the ideal choice for mounted in-car shooting, but you could get 2 camera's that would do the job for the same price :)

December 10th, 2008, 11:05 PM	#32
Mike Meier New Boot Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Davis, CA USA Posts: 7	Camera vibration could be caused by the mount, or what the mount is mounted to, or the car itself. A heavy camera just makes things worse. Some people use mounts that attach to the headrests of their seats. I'd expect to see a lot of camera shake in this videos. Others make simple mounts that extend from the rear deck, from behind the back seats. That can work if done well. Suction cup mounts on body panels that don't flex much can work well. Sticking them on glass works better since the glass is pretty rigid. I've used suction cup mounts on my windshield and sun roof and that worked out well. Mostly, I use an IOPort mount that is bolted onto my harness bar. It's a good solid mounting and you can aim and tilt the camera anyway you want. The camcorder is just behind me but I can reach it to turn it off and on. When used as a camera it gives a good view out of the front window. I also use it as a VCR when using bullet cams. Picture of my camera in its mount: http://www.kstreetstudio.com/hpde/vi...es/VidSysB.jpg Even as solid as this mounting is, during hard cornering and braking it will aim a little left/right and up/down. You can see this in all of my videos, but I have to say it actually adds a little something to the shots. Once I shot video where I zoomed in on the GTech that is mounted on my windshield. The GTech is constantly moving around in the view, but the camera is not shaking much. GTech video: TEAM Racing at Thunderhill, January 28, 2007. A G- Video The reason this is happening is the car's body flexes. Some cars do more of this than others. I know a guy who had a fully caged Civic and it still flexed so much that his videos were a mess. I mounted my equipment in a friend's race Mustang, with the camcorder on his roll bar, and the results were good. For shots from outside the car I use bullet cams. They are small, light, and not so expensive that I'd cry if I lost one. The video quality is not as good as from the camcorder, but that is another story. I use small suction cup mounts for side and rear shots and shots from the roof of my car when using my bullet cams. They have worked very well, but a lot of that is probably because the bullet cams are so light. You do have to make sure the car is clean and dry or else one or more suction cups may let go. I tether everything in case it comes off. External video (door and side window mount): T.E.A.M. Racing at Thunderhill, Januray 28, 2007. - Video I also have a bullet cam mounted in my grill. The only time I have ever had a problem with it is when I forgot to replace some of the plastic clips that hold all that trim and stuff together. Otherwise, it works well and I use that camera a lot. It is low to the ground and uses a wide angle lens so it makes things look even faster, plus you can see the curbing at the apexes. It also makes it look like you war way faster than the people you pass, but also much slower than the people who pass you. Also, when you get right up on someone's bumper it still makes it look like you are still a car-length back. One other installation that holds promise is the driver's helmet. It gives a very different feel to the whole driving experience. You get to see what the driver is looking at, almost, plus how not-smooth the laps are and how much the head leans to counter the G-forces. Helmet cam: SAMOA Event at Thunderhill, Apr-23-2007. Last ses- Video Sorry about the quality of the videos. I'm experimenting with the cameras and setups and audio and I am driving. That's a lot to keep track of, plus I don't get a good look or listen at the results until after I get home. A problem I have not been able to solve is to convey to the viewer just how fast things are happening. In the video it looks pretty relaxed. I had one student (driver) come over to view the videos before his first track day and after wards he thought he knew what to expect. When he got to the track, whole different experience. The turns were much tighter and the car was much faster than he expected. Getting good audio is also very difficult. We have to drive with both windows down so wind noise ruins the audio. Now I'm putting mic on my rear bumper and that works much better, although it could be improved. In recent efforts I use some of Premiere's audio effects to clean up the audio a bit. I use a miniDV camera and have never had a problem with it cutting out due to vibration or G-forces (I pull a little over 1 G in some turns). I know of others using solid state cameras that do cut out. I'd expect hard drive-based cameras to have even more of a problem with this.

February 20th, 2009, 02:59 PM	#33
Rob O'Day Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: UK Posts: 63	I hadn't forgotten about this thread AT ALL ! I've just been very busy, and trying to sort life out. Promise results will be up !

April 1st, 2009, 05:48 AM	#34
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	Bit late to the party, sorry. A problem with OIS is you cannot actually turn it off. This is why cheaper cameras without any OIS work better in these applications. Digital stabilization can be turned right off. OIS is a mechanical device, shake the camera enough or with enough G force and the OIS shakes around making the image really bad.

June 13th, 2009, 08:12 PM	#35
Ryan Douthit Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 474	Because of the extreme g-forces, vibration, heat and dust, we use VIO Sport cameras for most of our in-car footage. It uses a wireless remote that syncs up to 5 recorders. That way, we can have both forward, reverse and foot-pedal views. Each unit records to a separate SD memory card and is both vibration and waterproof. So far we've recorded two crashes and we've never lost a unit. This is something we did for ESPN. Watch the in-car footage as a rally driver hits a tree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UVqiDlKPOA Here's the full stage in-car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2FOnSMWObM V.I.O. \| POV.1.5M Digital Helmet Camera System \| POV375 \| B&H For more pedestrian stuff, we just mount our HD A1Us onto some Bogen suction mounts.