Solo shooter audio options

David Ennis · November 28th, 2007, 05:24 PM

Bob, I agree with the guy at the store. If you take a mic signal, put it through the superior preamps of the SD 302, then knock it back down to mic level, put it through the inferior preamps of the HV20 and record it as an MP2 file (!!??) then what have you gotten for your $1300? Extra gear to haul around and hook up. The top three reasons listed in a post above for using a mixer don't apply to you.

However, I have to agree with Martin that you'll have a fine piece of equipment in your kit to use with anything that you purchase or rent later, so if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, go for it. But be aware that your videography is likely to suffer a bit due to the distraction until you get a handle on it. Personally, I'd go for some better mics and a standalone recorder and experiment with mic placement. If you can afford to do it all, great!

Ty Ford · November 28th, 2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Ennis

Bob, I agree with the guy at the store. If you take a mic signal, put it through the superior preamps of the SD 302, then knock it back down to mic level, put it through the inferior preamps of the HV20 and record it as an MP2 file (!!??) then what have you gotten for your $1300? Extra gear to haul around and hook up. The top three reasons listed in a post above for using a mixer don't apply to you.

Depends on the circuit. My Canon XL2 only has Mic inputs. No problem with quality. Is this camera one of those HDV format cameras?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Martin Saxer · November 28th, 2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

There's also modules that pull SMPTE out of the LANC signal that many prosumer cameras have.

Ty Ford

Ty, I was looking for one of these but couldn't find one (no longer available, ...). Do you know which company currently produces such a thing and where to get it?

Ben Hillier · November 28th, 2007, 05:43 PM

After the help here from different members and investigating I use the follwing with my HV20:
Beachteck DXA2 adaptor, mixpre, Sennheiser G2 wireless, Rode NTG-2 and Sennheiser ME64.
This is a good basic setup and will last for when I step up to better cam. It pretty much gives me flexibilty in any situation, solo, or with boom op.
The ME64 goes on cam and is perfect for verité. If I use the beachteck in combo with mixpre then this gives me 3 channels too. The option is also there for total wirless if need be.
I know the big guys dont like beachteks and whatnot, but I'm happy so far with this for my level of work.
Hope thats of some help. Ben

Ty Ford · November 28th, 2007, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Saxer

Ty, I was looking for one of these but couldn't find one (no longer available, ...). Do you know which company currently produces such a thing and where to get it?

Have you put "SMPTE" anf "LANC" in Google?

Regards,

Ty

David Ennis · November 28th, 2007, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Depends on the circuit. My Canon XL2 only has Mic inputs. No problem with quality. Is this camera one of those HDV format cameras?

Yes it is.

Ty Ford · November 28th, 2007, 07:08 PM

Well then you won't win any awards for the audio.

Ty Ford

Bob Kerner · November 28th, 2007, 08:29 PM

Excellent. I'm glad there is a consensus :))

It sounds like I won't know until I test it. So plan A is to rent a 302 and run some content from it into the camera, compared with mic directly into camera. Does that sound reasonable?

Plan B is to give up and try to resurrect the era of silent movies!!

Cheers,
Bob

Ty Ford · November 28th, 2007, 08:43 PM

Bob,

That's a VERY, VERY good idea. Just make sure you give it a good shot by using a good set of monitors and listening deeply with a good set of headphones. Computer speakers won't do.

Regards,

Ty

David Ennis · November 28th, 2007, 09:21 PM

Plan B is not an option, Bob 8>). But Plan A sounds like a winner. Please let us know what you find.

Martin Saxer · November 29th, 2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Depends on the circuit. My Canon XL2 only has Mic inputs. No problem with quality. Is this camera one of those HDV format cameras?

Regards,

Ty Ford

The HV20's audio circuit is, unfortunately, rather bad, even by consumer camera standards.

I've done some things with a HV20 and a SD702, also partly as a solo shooter. My solution was in the end to go double system, and film the SD702's counter at the beginning and/or the end of each take. During post I added an aux TC track to the video (in Final Cut, using the offset from the filmed counter and a little applescript for the maths), then multiclipped audio and video tracks.

Ty Ford · November 29th, 2007, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Saxer

The HV20's audio circuit is, unfortunately, rather bad, even by consumer camera standards.

Due to HDV or something worse?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Martin Saxer · November 29th, 2007, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

Due to HDV or something worse?

Regards,

Ty Ford

No. I can live with HDV 192Kbit. The HV20 (at least mine) has a very noisy mic-in. Much noisier than my old TRV900, which was still noiser than the lousy PD150, wich was in turn worse than the Z1, which is still far from sony's pro cams, which still play in a different league than Sound Devices or HHB or whatever.

I love it, the HV20. Great little camera. But in my view, HV20 sound is hopeless. To feed it with a all the love and care that comes out of a SD302 does not get one very far, imho.

Bob Kerner · December 1st, 2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Saxer

I love it, the HV20. Great little camera. But in my view, HV20 sound is hopeless. To feed it with a all the love and care that comes out of a SD302 does not get one very far, imho.

I'm affraid you may be correct. I went back the the audio shop yesterday with the HV 20 to rent an SD302. We spent some time trying to to find the right cables and plugs to make it work. The plug hardware on your run of the mill audio cable is way beefier than the jack on the HV 20; it would barely seat properly in the hole. It took some trial and error to find the right set of cables with a small enough mini plug.

Then there were issues with configuring the two. The mic stage of the HV 20 is really not set up to take input from a mixer, it seems, as the tech had to make numerous adjustments to the 302 to get it right.

My initial impression is that the 302 is a fine piece of gear that would be an investment in any kit...any kit where the camera has a serious audio stage. We were both left wondering: Why do you want a $1000 mixer plugged into your $800 camera with amateur audio stage?

I keep focusing on the word "investment" ......... The audio tech salesman suggested dumping the camera, that anything I buy toward the more pro end would have sufficient audio to eliminate my desire to fuss around with a mixer.

So I'm going to spend today testing the quality of mixer vs no mixer to see if I can tell a difference. More to follow.

Ty Ford · December 1st, 2007, 07:10 PM

::Sigh::

The switch to mic level out is in the menu, not a hard switch on the unti itself.

Once you do that and calibrate the mixer to the camera, you should be fine.

Regards,

Ty

November 28th, 2007, 05:24 PM	#16
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Bob, I agree with the guy at the store. If you take a mic signal, put it through the superior preamps of the SD 302, then knock it back down to mic level, put it through the inferior preamps of the HV20 and record it as an MP2 file (!!??) then what have you gotten for your $1300? Extra gear to haul around and hook up. The top three reasons listed in a post above for using a mixer don't apply to you. However, I have to agree with Martin that you'll have a fine piece of equipment in your kit to use with anything that you purchase or rent later, so if you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, go for it. But be aware that your videography is likely to suffer a bit due to the distraction until you get a handle on it. Personally, I'd go for some better mics and a standalone recorder and experiment with mic placement. If you can afford to do it all, great! __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

November 28th, 2007, 07:08 PM	#22
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Well then you won't win any awards for the audio. Ty Ford __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

November 28th, 2007, 08:43 PM	#24
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	Bob, That's a VERY, VERY good idea. Just make sure you give it a good shot by using a good set of monitors and listening deeply with a good set of headphones. Computer speakers won't do. Regards, Ty __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

November 28th, 2007, 09:21 PM	#25
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Plan B is not an option, Bob 8>). But Plan A sounds like a winner. Please let us know what you find. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

December 1st, 2007, 07:10 PM	#30
Ty Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 2,337	::Sigh:: The switch to mic level out is in the menu, not a hard switch on the unti itself. Once you do that and calibrate the mixer to the camera, you should be fine. Regards, Ty __________________ Ty Ford's Audio Bootcamp Field Guide Ty Ford's Audio Video Blog

November 28th, 2007, 05:43 PM	#19
Ben Hillier Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cali, Colombia Posts: 46	After the help here from different members and investigating I use the follwing with my HV20: Beachteck DXA2 adaptor, mixpre, Sennheiser G2 wireless, Rode NTG-2 and Sennheiser ME64. This is a good basic setup and will last for when I step up to better cam. It pretty much gives me flexibilty in any situation, solo, or with boom op. The ME64 goes on cam and is perfect for verité. If I use the beachteck in combo with mixpre then this gives me 3 channels too. The option is also there for total wirless if need be. I know the big guys dont like beachteks and whatnot, but I'm happy so far with this for my level of work. Hope thats of some help. Ben

November 28th, 2007, 08:29 PM	#23
Bob Kerner Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York Posts: 388	Excellent. I'm glad there is a consensus :)) It sounds like I won't know until I test it. So plan A is to rent a 302 and run some content from it into the camera, compared with mic directly into camera. Does that sound reasonable? Plan B is to give up and try to resurrect the era of silent movies!! Cheers, Bob