FS5 recording options at DVinfo.net

Tom Valens · October 20th, 2016, 08:16 AM

I'm considering buying an FS5. From what I understand, recording options for what I am interested in are as follows: I can record XAVC 4K internally at 50mbps 4:2:0 8 bit, but no HDMI output possible. Or I can record XAVC HD at 100 mbps 4:2:2 10 bit, HDMI output possible. If I use an Atomos Shogun Flame, I can record ProRes 4K 10 bit 4:2:2 out of the HDMI (but not SDI), but no internal recording possible, and the viewfinder and LCD won't work (need to use Shogun to monitor). Or I can record ProRes HD 10 bit 4:2:2 out of either HDMI or SDI (but again no Sony viewfinder or LCD available). Is that correct? Thanks for any input.

Cliff Totten · October 20th, 2016, 01:18 PM

The FS5 is like this:

1080
50mbp/s internal 10bit 4:2:2
SDI=10bit 4:2:2
HDMI=8bit 4:2:2

4k (UHD)
100mbp/s internal 8bit 4:2:0
HDMI=8bit 4:2:2
SDI=no 4k

DCI 4k
SDI port using Sony FS raw 12bit 4:4:4 sensor data.(paid option)

The FS5 can ony process two 4k streams at once. You get internal recorded stream and your choice of monitor OR HDMI. Or, you can not record internally and get monitor and HDMI together.

Hope that helps. BTW, you can choose lower 1080 and 4k internal CODEC options too.

Sorry to bust your bubble but the 1080 HDMI is only 8 bit. I could be wrong but I dont think Sony has ever built any camera to date with any resolution using 10bit color over HDMI.

CT

Tom Valens · October 20th, 2016, 02:57 PM

Cliff -

Thanks for the info

Tom Valens
Tamalpais Productions

Nigel Davey · October 21st, 2016, 01:44 AM

Hi Cliff. I don't want to hijack this thread, but your comment about 1080 HDMI output at 8-bit vs SDI 10 bit got my intention.... plus I think you've answered Tom's question.

I'm thinking of buying a 1080 field monitor for the FS5 and two of my key considerations are the SmallHD 501 (HDMI only) or 502 (HDMI and SDI and crossover between the 2).

If I went the 502 route ($200 more) and hooked it up via SDI, would the 10/bit difference over HDMI make any tangible/practical difference to the monitor's output?

Also can you think of any ways the 502 crossover (SDI to HDMI and vice-versa) feature would be a useful on the FS5, given it's restricted output options?

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to the 8bit/10 bit question (I'm expecting 'no'), but since I'd almost settled on 501, I thought I'd ask the question before pushing the button.

Dave Sperling · October 21st, 2016, 05:11 PM

From s monitoring perspective, I doubt that you'd see the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit on any Small monitor.

However,
Having recently bought a Small 702 Lite, I've been surprised by the number of times I've either needed to use the SDI input, or used the monitor as a converter or splitter. For me the extra for the SDI has been well worth it (and I've only had the monitor for a couple of months...) Of course it's small and light enough that I bring it along on shoots - even shooting with other people's cameras. Having the SDI input can be really convenient with older non-HDMI cameras, particularly those older cameras where the eyepieces are aging out and getting softer, plus on some newer cameras I feel like there is a little more delay in the HDMI processing than in the SDI, and thus less delay coming out of the HD-SDI. Sure, for the extra money you could buy a separate converter, but it's so convenient having it built in.

Nigel Davey · October 22nd, 2016, 02:13 AM

Thanks Dave…. you've just made my decision a whole lot harder;-)

Dave Sperling · October 22nd, 2016, 09:11 AM

Happy to have been of assistance confusing the issue ;-)

You have a better sense of how you tend to work and what your clients want/need. I go into a lot of shooting situations where things may change at the last second, so I often bring extra gear -- and it's worth it to me to spend a few extra dollars to have more flexibility.
As an example -- This week we were shooting a Broadway play (with 3 XDcam disc cameras) -- and right before the show the director was bemoaning the fact that many of the transitions between scenes looked beautiful to eye, but were lit only by candles on the stage (and far too dark for the cameras to capture without switching in and out of excessive gain.) Our on-the-spot solution: I had brought along my A7s and was able to rig it clamping a monopod to the seat in front of me (right next to my camera position, which was in orchestra seating as well but on a tripod taking up all the available space in the row.) We preset the A7s to a wide lock-off and a high ISO, and I was given cues to reach over and roll it before each transition. Of course while the stage lights were on it was massively overexposed -- but the dark transitions were beautiful. Since I was operating the XDcam camera, I rigged the Small 702 to view the A7s, and used the HDMI- HDSDI conversion feature to send a video signal (through a spare BNC on the multi-cable run to the XDcam) which at the director's table went into the 4th position of a Decimator quad split onto a large OLED monitor. That allowed the director to see and believe that we were getting great footage in the darkness with the A7s. And of course all this was thrown together at the last second! The convenience of having the conversion on the 702 made things easy (because there was a spare bnc in our cable bundle and no way we could have easily added a 75' HDMI cable run right before the show.)

October 20th, 2016, 08:16 AM	#1
Tom Valens Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 28	FS5 recording options I'm considering buying an FS5. From what I understand, recording options for what I am interested in are as follows: I can record XAVC 4K internally at 50mbps 4:2:0 8 bit, but no HDMI output possible. Or I can record XAVC HD at 100 mbps 4:2:2 10 bit, HDMI output possible. If I use an Atomos Shogun Flame, I can record ProRes 4K 10 bit 4:2:2 out of the HDMI (but not SDI), but no internal recording possible, and the viewfinder and LCD won't work (need to use Shogun to monitor). Or I can record ProRes HD 10 bit 4:2:2 out of either HDMI or SDI (but again no Sony viewfinder or LCD available). Is that correct? Thanks for any input.

October 20th, 2016, 01:18 PM	#2
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: FS5 recording options The FS5 is like this: 1080 50mbp/s internal 10bit 4:2:2 SDI=10bit 4:2:2 HDMI=8bit 4:2:2 4k (UHD) 100mbp/s internal 8bit 4:2:0 HDMI=8bit 4:2:2 SDI=no 4k DCI 4k SDI port using Sony FS raw 12bit 4:4:4 sensor data.(paid option) The FS5 can ony process two 4k streams at once. You get internal recorded stream and your choice of monitor OR HDMI. Or, you can not record internally and get monitor and HDMI together. Hope that helps. BTW, you can choose lower 1080 and 4k internal CODEC options too. Sorry to bust your bubble but the 1080 HDMI is only 8 bit. I could be wrong but I dont think Sony has ever built any camera to date with any resolution using 10bit color over HDMI. CT

October 20th, 2016, 02:57 PM	#3
Tom Valens Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 28	Re: FS5 recording options Cliff - Thanks for the info Tom Valens Tamalpais Productions

October 21st, 2016, 01:44 AM	#4
Nigel Davey Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 241	Re: FS5 recording options Hi Cliff. I don't want to hijack this thread, but your comment about 1080 HDMI output at 8-bit vs SDI 10 bit got my intention.... plus I think you've answered Tom's question. I'm thinking of buying a 1080 field monitor for the FS5 and two of my key considerations are the SmallHD 501 (HDMI only) or 502 (HDMI and SDI and crossover between the 2). If I went the 502 route ($200 more) and hooked it up via SDI, would the 10/bit difference over HDMI make any tangible/practical difference to the monitor's output? Also can you think of any ways the 502 crossover (SDI to HDMI and vice-versa) feature would be a useful on the FS5, given it's restricted output options? I'm pretty sure I know the answer to the 8bit/10 bit question (I'm expecting 'no'), but since I'd almost settled on 501, I thought I'd ask the question before pushing the button. __________________ www.ndavey.co.uk

October 21st, 2016, 05:11 PM	#5
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: FS5 recording options From s monitoring perspective, I doubt that you'd see the difference between 8-bit and 10-bit on any Small monitor. However, Having recently bought a Small 702 Lite, I've been surprised by the number of times I've either needed to use the SDI input, or used the monitor as a converter or splitter. For me the extra for the SDI has been well worth it (and I've only had the monitor for a couple of months...) Of course it's small and light enough that I bring it along on shoots - even shooting with other people's cameras. Having the SDI input can be really convenient with older non-HDMI cameras, particularly those older cameras where the eyepieces are aging out and getting softer, plus on some newer cameras I feel like there is a little more delay in the HDMI processing than in the SDI, and thus less delay coming out of the HD-SDI. Sure, for the extra money you could buy a separate converter, but it's so convenient having it built in.

October 22nd, 2016, 02:13 AM	#6
Nigel Davey Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 241	Re: FS5 recording options Thanks Dave…. you've just made my decision a whole lot harder;-) __________________ www.ndavey.co.uk

October 22nd, 2016, 09:11 AM	#7
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: FS5 recording options Happy to have been of assistance confusing the issue ;-) You have a better sense of how you tend to work and what your clients want/need. I go into a lot of shooting situations where things may change at the last second, so I often bring extra gear -- and it's worth it to me to spend a few extra dollars to have more flexibility. As an example -- This week we were shooting a Broadway play (with 3 XDcam disc cameras) -- and right before the show the director was bemoaning the fact that many of the transitions between scenes looked beautiful to eye, but were lit only by candles on the stage (and far too dark for the cameras to capture without switching in and out of excessive gain.) Our on-the-spot solution: I had brought along my A7s and was able to rig it clamping a monopod to the seat in front of me (right next to my camera position, which was in orchestra seating as well but on a tripod taking up all the available space in the row.) We preset the A7s to a wide lock-off and a high ISO, and I was given cues to reach over and roll it before each transition. Of course while the stage lights were on it was massively overexposed -- but the dark transitions were beautiful. Since I was operating the XDcam camera, I rigged the Small 702 to view the A7s, and used the HDMI- HDSDI conversion feature to send a video signal (through a spare BNC on the multi-cable run to the XDcam) which at the director's table went into the 4th position of a Decimator quad split onto a large OLED monitor. That allowed the director to see and believe that we were getting great footage in the darkness with the A7s. And of course all this was thrown together at the last second! The convenience of having the conversion on the 702 made things easy (because there was a spare bnc in our cable bundle and no way we could have easily added a 75' HDMI cable run right before the show.)