FS5 - Cut/Paste Clips from One Card to Another

[Dave Mercer]

I want to copy some clips from one SDXC card to another. Any way to do this with cards in the camera? I checked manual, and through menu options and seems I might be out of luck. I used to be able to do this on my C100.

[Doug Jensen]

No way to do that on board the camera, but it is really easy to do with Catalyst Browse. However, just be warned that the process may change your clip names if those names already exist on the first card. One of the biggest shortcomings of the camera is not having control over the clip naming. I'll never get used to that.

[Jack Zhang]

Wait... What?!?

I've heard of oversights with the camera, but this is yet another big oversight for people that may need to copy cards for clients and etc...

Can you in the very least copy the entire card to another in camera? If you can't even do that, it's honestly STUPID for field DIT work if you don't have access to a PC.

[Doug Jensen]

No, you can't copy an entire card either. But I'd have to disagree that this a shortcoming of the camera. And don't forget that the camera offers simultaneous recording to both cards in most shooting modes.

[Jack Zhang]

No, this is such a shortcoming. What if you shot with a card that has 2 separate shoots on the same card? Then the client only requests one of the two, you have no access to a PC on location (say it's ultra remote) and you have to copy those specific clips to a client card?

If people bring up the argument "then adapt" or "you should have prepared for it, stupid." I'll say why break a feature when it has it's legitimate uses and is available on the other cameras in the XDCAM series. You should have features to HELP DITs, not make their lives harder in these circumstances.

[Doug Jensen]

I'm not going to waste time debating whether it is a feature worth having or not. But the bottom line is that it can't do it. Period. On a list of reasons to buy or not buy the FS5 this has to be way down on most people's lists. I'd rather have it make toast than copy cards.

[Jack Zhang]

I can see now where you're coming from now that ALL future Sony cameras no longer have that function.

This is such a push to force Catalyst on unsuspecting camera owners.

A Nexto DI sounds about right if that's how it's going to be.

[Dave Sperling]

I'm definitely with Doug on this one... plus a couple more comments...

I think having the dual record option is a huge plus. (This leads directly to a dual-record 'save' story, which though not on a camera, still involved an SD card -- Last Sunday was shooting an archival of a theatre production - 3 cameras plus audio recorder. Cameras all shooting SxS cards -- no issues there -- but audio mixer recorder was saving its 10 audio tracks to SD & CF cards. 90 minute show (approx 8.8 Gigs of audio - so the Sound Devices recorder makes a new file every 3.6 Gigs) -- 3 .WAV files. Went to transfer Audio files and the 3rd file on the SD card was unreadable! (Sinking panic feeling-- we really needed all 10 tracks!!) Luckily the CF card was fully readable and saved the day. Thank You Dual Recording!!! (Will I ever know what the SD card problem was? - probably not - sound man and equip were both top notch, and he uses only recommended cards and pre-tests them.) I'm just happy we didn't lose anything because we had a dual record backup.

I do have another thought about the whole 'camera as copying deck' issue -- which is that although this is probably a feature that could be added in later firmware, I tend to worry about the possibility of losing/recording over data from users unfamiliar with 'deck menu' operation in the camera. I'd rather go with the dual-record from the start...

And Jack -- I've had a Nexto for several years, and am a big fan of the extra level of data security it brings - and of its speed and ease of operation. Not necessarily the cheapest option, but certainly convenient and easy to pack.

[Jack Zhang]

Yeah, if Sony's not going to include a USB 3.0 Host interface on their cameras like the Panasonic cameras currently have to even eliminate the Nexto from the equation, I'm going to have to get a Nexto if I buy a Sony in the future. The PMW-PZ1 has exactly this USB 3.0 copying function, but still doesn't have individual clip copying management. It's whole cards or nothing.

I realize it's to eliminate PEBCAK, (I cannot disagree that selective copying can lead to issues) but you can't discount the software division liked (and you could theorize, forced) this change to increase use of the "free-to-play" (video gaming term) Catalyst Browse. When used properly, the copying to another slot is so useful for making "client cards" in case you have multiple shoots on your primary card. XDCAM EX made it so easy to backup in camera. Once everything moved to XAVC, there shouldn't be a step backwards.

What they COULD do is hide the function deep in the menus, then you have to manually turn this on, and provide a warning that the user accepts responsibility for any loss of data. Or if they really wanted to make Catalyst Browse be a stopgap, they could lock the function until a serial number is generated in Catalyst Browse, and that has to be input to unlock the function in camera, and even then, it's only a switch which will warn the user each time about loss of data if switched on.

[Mike Watson]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

No, this is such a shortcoming. What if you shot with a card that has 2 separate shoots on the same card? Then the client only requests one of the two, you have no access to a PC on location (say it's ultra remote) and you have to copy those specific clips to a client card?

If people bring up the argument "then adapt" or "you should have prepared for it, stupid." I'll say why break a feature when it has it's legitimate uses and is available on the other cameras in the XDCAM series. You should have features to HELP DITs, not make their lives harder in these circumstances.

Why not just shoot two shoots on two cards? Cards are $25. I travel with no less than a dozen.

What location is so "ultra remote" that you wouldn't have a laptop but you would urgently need to copy files from one card to another so you could hand a card to a client?

I get it that you don't like this camera, but I don't get why every minor issue you make a huge deal of on this forum. The camera you want doesn't exist at your price point. I get it man, I've been there. But why not move on?

[Jack Zhang]

I want to like it so bad, but it's got so many things that made me think the R&D was so rushed... and the questionable business practice of locking features or stripping features is something I only expect from something like the PlayStation division.

The hardware is designed so well, but what runs it is so underpowered and limited.

And this feature being stripped from all future Sony cameras is frankly so stupid to force people onto Catalyst Browse. There's no reason to remove a feature if there's not some alternative method of file management that scared Sony Creative Software so much that they asked them to remove the feature to bolster Catalyst sales and installs.

I want to hear from non-objective observers: People like the OP of this thread expect this feature from every other brand of camera, and all the people that have endorsed Sony now say "This feature is the devil and we MUST change our workflows to match!" I know there's money to have people say "Catalyst is the best thing ever!" being exchanged.

If you truly want people to in the very least install Catalyst once, have it generate a serial number to unlock features in camera. If you made Catalyst Prepare free for camera owners, then locked LUT import access until you punched in a serial number into the camera that Catalyst Prepare generates after you install the software, that's a fair trade, you get your install and you get the feature, even though it's an extra step to unlock. Same can be said for Catalyst Browse. It can generate a serial number in the software to unlock file copying in camera. (Even if you had to do a compulsory registration, this is a fair deal)

Panasonic and Canon have none of these problems. XDCAM EX had none of these problems. When Content Browser surfaced and the paywall for metadata viewing started, I knew they were going on a downward trend.

If only the Nexto can get licenses to clip manage file formats (so that it can fully read camera metadata and copy over in native camera file structure) like the Odyssey gets licenses for RAW options...

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

What if you shot with a card that has 2 separate shoots on the same card? Then the client only requests one of the two, you have no access to a PC on location (say it's ultra remote) and you have to copy those specific clips to a client card?

If you would run into a situation like that and not being able to give the client what he wants means you got there totally unprepared.

First I would never mix shots from different shoots onto the same card but get a set of cards for each shoot and use them to dual record to for safety, if I was shooting on a ultra-remote location I'd also take a small lightweight laptop with me to offload my footage after every shoot for back up purposes and copy the entire card structure, I think any professional would already know if a client would need footage on the spot because that is something you talk about when you get hired for the job.

I can understand it can be a nuisance to some that Sony decided not to implement this and who knows, they might give it back with a firmware update but as it is now, it's not a reason to screw up a job because you can't blame the camera if that would happen.

[Dave Mercer]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

No way to do that on board the camera, but it is really easy to do with Catalyst Browse. However, just be warned that the process may change your clip names if those names already exist on the first card. One of the biggest shortcomings of the camera is not having control over the clip naming. I'll never get used to that.

Thanks Doug. I'll look to do it inside Catalyst Browse. Ideally I could paste / delete clips before archive (unneeded interviews, etc). Will see ...

[Mike Watson]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

I want to hear from non-objective observers: People like the OP of this thread expect this feature from every other brand of camera, and all the people that have endorsed Sony now say "This feature is the devil and we MUST change our workflows to match!" I know there's money to have people say "Catalyst is the best thing ever!" being exchanged.

Somewhere between people who are objective and people who are non-objective are people who are realists. Here's the camera Sony has offered at a given price point. It has some features. It is missing some features. If you want more features, spend more money. If you don't want those features enough to spend more money, don't buy them.

I like chicken tacos. And I like steak tacos. Chicken tacos save me a couple bucks a plate. That's what I usually order. I don't order chicken tacos and then express outrage when I don't receive steak tacos. Furthermore, I don't try and start a riot on an online forum, and get others to match my outrage. I knew what I was getting, I bought it, here it is.

I get it that weird stuff like the "can't record HDMI out and use the onboard monitor and use SDI out all at the same time" wasn't exactly advertised, in fact was hidden until the camera shipped, But still, it was made public (very public) before the camera ever left the factory, and if it wasn't going to work for you, you could cancel your order. I ordered anyway. No regrets.

What I'm trying to get to here is that this forum is filled with people who 1) own the camera 2) are contemplating buying the camera. You are neither. You're an activist with a bone to pick. What gives? I just don't have that kind of energy, and I don't understand those that do. I'd rather spend my time on something that gives back.

[Olof Ekbergh]

This is one reason EditReady is so nice, batch renaming to custom name.

And you can transcode or just rewrap as you copy the clips. Stripping silent tracks is great as well.