Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

[Noa Put]

+1 I have one camera that has a dual slot for sdxc cards and record to both simultaniously, with all these messages I read on this site about corrupt cards and loosing data having a second card as backup can make all the difference, there is no use of having a expensive camera if you are not able to retrieve that once in a life time moment from a bad card.

[Andy Wilkinson]

Just an update on how I'm getting on with the FS5 and Letus Helix Jr. See pictures of my set-up in posts #12 and #13 on page 1 of this thread for an idea of what it looks like (although those pics were with the Sony 18-105mm G kit lens).

Been playing around with adjusting settings with the excellent iOS Letus App on my phone for the last hour and I think I'm getting close to something that's very usable - really liking the Letus!

The set-up I'm working on at the moment is with my Metabones IV adapter and Canon 10-22mm. Just getting a bit of a kick-back sometimes with the tilt axis - so hope to be working on that tomorrow (if I get time - and also working on settings for the kit lens - and then possibly the Canon 17-55mm lens too). Anyway, once I've got this first attempt with the Canon wide angle as good as I can get I'm hoping to post all the settings on here as they might help someone with a reasonable start point to further refine to their taste.

[Jeremy Cole]

So, I received by FS5 today. I was impressed by the build. Though the body is light, once you add lenses, a battery and a shotgun, it gets quite heavy.

I played around a bit with the clear image zoom, both with the kit lens and my own Nikon lenses with the Metabones adapter. The zoom-in function on the kit lens has a little hitch before it sequences to the clear image zoom, so the zoom is not smooth and zooming out is jerky. It can be used in a pinch, but not like a regular zoom. The light sensitivity is not substantially better at the default 1600, than my EX1r. It is ok. I can, of course crank it up. I had it to 20000 which is a lot better than I thought it would be. It is actually usable if you have to get the shot.

It reminds me a lot of the AF100, only heavier and more substantial and, of course, it does 4K, which I haven't tested out yet. Do wish it had a waveform and Vectorscope , but I do have a couple of external monitor/recorders I can use for that function, which will make it even heavier. I particularly like the focus mag function (4x and 8x). I always wished the AF100 had that function.

My newer Watson BP-60 battery does not work, but my older Sony batteries work fine as does my SWIT S-8U62 with the pigtail.

One note, I have large hands and the grip feels small to me. My fingers have to work hard to get back to the focus mag and the zoom rocker because they overshoot those buttons. Lots to learn about and get used to.

[Mike Watson]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Cole

One note, I have large hands and the grip feels small to me. My fingers have to work hard to get back to the focus mag and the zoom rocker because they overshoot those buttons. Lots to learn about and get used to.

This is odd to say, but this gets better with time. I removed (and ultimately lost) the grip for my FS-100, and never really wished for it. When I got the FS5 I was disappointed to find that my hand didn't fit the grip very well, but over a week or two I notice that it's getting more second nature, and a little less of a stretch to get to all the buttons.

Also, I like clear image zoom more now than a few weeks ago. It does start/stop with a jerk, but I'm hopeful that'll get fixed in a firmware update. (How could it not?) I use manual zoom lenses and the faux servo zoom I hope will come in handy.

[Christopher Young]

Re the battery issue. Not see any issues issues with Jupio brand batteries. One of our major Sony dealers spent a fair bit of time testing these with the FS5. First few runs with them 100% full off the charger and there have been no reset back to the time menu or restrictions on formatting cards.

Re the twittering / artifact edges in 4K at 3200 ISO and above we have have been able to replicate this. Obviously Sony needs to fix this.

An interesting anomaly was discovered when we were chasing this 4K artifact problem. It concerns the Sony E PZ 18-105mm f/4 G OSS kit lens. See if any of you can replicate these symptoms.

Using the handle zoom servo zoom right in and manual focus either with the push momentary focus or manually. Now zoom back quickly to somewhere around mid zoom range and stop quickly as if you were re-framing. The lens is more often than not out of focus. Push the momentary focus button and you will see the lens ease back into focus. Interestingly quickly tap, not zoom, just tap the zoom servo rocker on the handle and the lens will quickly look like it over corrects and snaps back into focus. This is repeatable time and time again if using the handle zoom servo rocker.

Now try the same exercise using the servo control on the lens itself. A quick re-frame and it holds focus. Again this is totally repeatable and the lens maintains focus every time. We thought it might be an issue with the 18-105 kit lens. So we swapped it for another 18-105 which was on the FS700. The errant re-framing loss of focus reared its head again using the handle servo but not when using the lens servo.

We tried the handle off the FS700 just in case it was Lanc control issue on the FS5 handle. Exactly the same problems so it looks like the issue is not in the FS5's handle.

Next test step, We put the Sony FE PZ 28-135mm f/4 G OSS Lens on the FS5, No zoom re-framing focus issues at all. Next step, We put on the Sony E PZ 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 OSS servo zoom lens. Again no issues at all losing focus on re-framing.

To sum up there appears to be a software comms issue between the Sony E PZ 18-105mm f/4 G OSS lens and the FS5 body when using the zoom servo on the camera's hand grip. This obviously needs to be fixed ASAP if this is considered to be 'the' kit lens that comes with the FS5.

Incidentally it made no difference with lens compensation turned to auto or off. Normally this is set to auto. The camera has v1.10 firmware and the 18-105 has v2.0. All up to date in other words.

Love to hear anyone's experiences.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Cliff Totten]

Some great info above.

Question, have you been able to notify Sony Support on the FS5 torn edges problem?

I'm curious to know if Sony is aware of it yet.

Thanks!

CT

[Nate Haustein]

Good real world testing going on here. Would it maybe be a good idea to start a thread with bug-reports & feature requests that could sometime be shared with the proper reps? Things like what Chris discovered with the 18-105mm and requests like having momentary Auto-Focus mapped to the handgrip or the ability to route individual CH1/CH2 audio to headphones for monitoring. I don't think it should be a place where people are requesting (demanding) things like 10-bit 4K 4:2:2 because it's just not reasonable. Perhaps I'll start a thread and moderate it a bit to compile the thoughts.

[Andy Wilkinson]

Really good idea Nate.

[Mike Watson]

I posted this at the end of the last page, and it got lost when we switched over to a new page, so I'm posting again:

I can get my phone to control the camera, but when I do, the viewfinder is blank so you can't see what the camera's doing from the camera anymore. The way this is written, it seems like I should be able to just watch from a tablet/phone without control. Has anyone made this work?

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Some great info above.

Question, have you been able to notify Sony Support on the FS5 torn edges problem?

I'm curious to know if Sony is aware of it yet.

Thanks!

CT

it's Monday here today and believe me as of today down here Sony are aware of the all the issues I and others have mentioned. The lens control issue is I would suggest is a firmware fixable thing as none of the outlined weird behaviour happens with the FS700 using the 18-105. Seeing manufacturers these days are using less dedicated ASICS and more and more FPGA's I highly doubt the problem is baked in, Let's hope this is fixed quickly as its a deal breaker on shoots where you hope the lens will maintain its focus point when it's a parfocal lens, which it is. In the meantime its like using a Canon lens where you have to refocus at each re-frame point.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

Really good idea Nate.

+1 on that idea.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Noa Put]

Over at eoshd there is also an interesting review of the camera, the owner expected a perfect camera only to find the same issues as already mentioned on this forum. One thing he mentioned though about Sony's doubtful internal quality control is also my experience, I have owned several Sony camera's in the past and some of them, like a vx2000/vx2100, fx1000 where reliable workhorses. Even my cx730 camera's have proven to be very reliable camera's. It started when I got my nex-ea50 and now my rx10 which both had weird glitches, then I also read about the Sony A7S II with the 'black hole' in the sun and now the fs5 which have problems that you might question how that ever has passed Sony's QC.

Alltough most should be fixable with a firmwareupdate the apparently underwhelming 10bit codec have people asking for higher bitrate or just the same codec implementation as on the fs7 but that might be the reason why Sony makes a difference, because if the fs5 looks the same as the fs7 then there might not be a reason to get the fs7. The same tactic Canon has been applying for years to protect sales on higher end models.

When I bought a canon xh-a1 the only difference between the xh-g1 was hd-sdi/sd-dsi out, genlock, and time code but image wise they where identical and for that difference your paid 1000 euro extra but ever since the large sensor revolution started difference in models seem to be made with codec limitations.

[Christopher Young]

Hi All ~

A colleague has just flicked this through to me. More issues raising their heads on the FS5. Have yet to fully understand all the ramifications in this report. Will be downloading the footage and pixel peeping it.

Sony FS5 user reports artifact issues triggered by changing exposure, ND. Visible on HDMI output

Thoughts?

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Jeroen Wolf]

I traded my FS5 for an FS7 and had to swallow a $1000,- loss, not considering the price difference between the two camera's.

But I am very glad I did. I don't want a camera with 4K as an afterthought. The difference between 4K on these camera's is enormous. Not surprisingly, really, but still... The FS5 is NOT a mini FS7. You cannot expect 4K shot on a consumer card to look like 4K shot on 'pro' cards. XAVC-I vs XAVC-L in 4K (or 10 bit vs 8 bit) is a massive difference.

Another major reason is that the form factor -which at first seemed an advantage- in my experience became a disadvantage. Because after you build the camera with a lens (other than the limited use 'stock lens') such as the 24-105 with SpeedBooster, BP-U90 battery, camera mic and wireless receiver, perhaps a loupe, the camera is still small but not so well balanced and heavy. And a small, heavy package is harder to shoot handheld than a larger one. Especially if you have to hold it in front of you. And if you're going to use it shoulder mounted (by adding a rig or shoulderpad), the FS7 is so much better with the arm and loupe.

And the difference, to my surprise, is not that big, neither in weight nor size. And since I don't have a gimbal, I don't need my camera to be small for that purpose. (I still have my GH4.)

The FS5 all dressed up is not at all 'stealth' like a DSLR or GH4. It's an impressive camera and obviously not a consumer product.

But most importantly- I wanted my 4K footage to look as good as my HD footage. It became quite clear to me that the FS5 could never accomplish that.

[Andy Wilkinson]

I promised a while back to update you all on where I'm at with the FS5 and Letus Helix Jr.

At last, found a little time and I've now worked out some settings to get pretty good balance and stable flying with the FS5 on this gimbal.

There is a lot of detailed information, so rather than clutter up this thread I've put together some thoughts on a page at the 'back end' of my website. This covers, firstly the FS5 and then specifically the Letus Helix Jr. I also show some settings from the Letus iOS App (Power, P.I.D etc.) plus lots of pictures showing how I balanced the FS5 with the Sony G 18-105mm kit lens on the gimbal.

Hopefully, this is useful to someone!

SonyPXWFS5

I'll update this website page with more info soon - but in the meantime if anyone has any questions I'll try and answer them (on here) when I can.