Sony PXW-FS5 - Initial User Impressions

[Jim Stamos]

Olof as good a shooter as u are, the focus issue must be serious if you're having problems with the focus.
Can't Sony fix this with a firmware update?

[Olof Ekbergh]

Originally Posted by Jim Stamos

Olof as good a shooter as u are, the focus issue must be serious if you're having problems with the focus.
Can't Sony fix this with a firmware update?

Maybe, I would say Sony is aware of a number of shooters reporting difficult manual focus on the lens.

It is not impossible, just harder than it should be to manually focus. Using the auto focus by pushing the instantaneous button works OK in most cases, but not in really critical situations. The best way I have found is to use the auto to get close and then fine tune by hand looking at my Odyssey, or 4x mag on the LCD/VF but the problem is it tends to overshoot and it can be hard to nail it exact. Practice with peaking, find the peaking setting that works best for you.

It is not impossible, just much harder than any other lens I have ever had. You can do it but it wastes time, so you may loose a shot. I would never use this lens for shooting wild life or where you have to use a follow focus to repeat a focus move.

I hope Sony does update the FW of the 18-105, to make the focus more consistent. It would make the lens friendlier to use.

[Jim Stamos]

I would think the hood man loupe would help with focussing

[Olof Ekbergh]

Originally Posted by Jim Stamos

I would think the hood man loupe would help with focussing

The problem is not the LCD or EVF it is the way that the lens responds to your movements. Sometimes it is very sensitive and other times it takes a lot to change at all. And it is not consistent, so I find myself really hunting for exact focus even using a 24" production monitor or my Odyssey 7Q+.

And with a follow focus you can't rely on marks to focus, because it changes position for the same focus point.

In other words on a Canon EF lens, I can preset distance points on the FF wheel and it is always repeatable as long as you don't go past infinity on minimum focus. The 18-105 is not consistent it mostly depends on the speed you move the focus ring, but also on where you are in the zoom range.

If I can normally focus in 1 second, it takes me 3-4 to nail focus on this lens or at least it feels like it, and it is hard to nudge focus just a bit. So for some shots it just will not work. The EX cam lenses were very good at this in comparison.

Also bear in mind that on this size imager focus is much more critical.

[Jim Stamos]

I've always wondered y they didn't put an ex type lens on it,would it have been that much more?
Possible u have a defective lens..?

[Ray Lee]

Manual focus with all of the Sony E mount lenses is a royal pain, a real shame because the feel is nice and because its only a software issue we could even get a nice long throw out of them if they decided to change the firmware

Its not the feel or the fact they are fly by wire... its that say you rotate the focus ring 30mm to focus on a subject 5 feet from you then when you rotate it back the exact same 30mm you could be focused at infinity or 1 foot from the lens... you never know, it varies depending one how fast you turn the focus ring (and its impossible even if you match the speed precisely... I was bored so I tested with a slow geared servo motor :)

[Jim Stamos]

I will definitely ask Sony at nab

[Olof Ekbergh]

Originally Posted by Jim Stamos

I've always wondered y they didn't put an ex type lens on it,would it have been that much more?
Possible u have a defective lens..?

Well there is a huge difference in a ½" imager versus S35 imager. All the optics have to be much larger and it is very complex to make a big imager lens parfocal.

These are real cine size lenses and get very expensive for any zoom range. The f1.9 10x lens on the EX1 is basically impossible to build for a S35 imager, or at least it would be huge and heavy not to mention the price.

That is one reason the 18-105 is quite remarkable. It would be nice if Sony could make the manual focus work better, but I don't think it is easy or they would have done it already. As it is there is a lot of very advanced wizardry going on.

So for me the kit lens is a great deal, but you have to understand what it will do and accept some shortcomings. For $500.00 it is a great deal. But it is not a cine zoom lens by any stretch of the imagination. It is a very versatile compromise. And I do use it a lot but not exclusively.

[Jim Stamos]

The lens although fixed is the same type on the pwx x70.
It's a 1" sensor and also has that infinite focus ring like the fs5

I have to think Sony will have a firmware upgrade but who knows when if sales continue to xplode

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

I would grab all my stuff, EVF shoulder rig etc. and go to a dealer and see if he would let you rig up a FS5, or maybe rent on for a day and see if it works for you.

If you did not have all the stuff EVF, shoulder rig, counterweight etc then you may as well just buy the FS7 as it is already set up for shouldering with a workable EVF (a bit long and clumsy but it works fine). You can also add a softer shoulder pad (like the one I make or many others on the market) and brick batteries in the back.

The only way you will know is by actually trying it out yourself, we all are built differently and work differently so...

Yeah - to test the ergonomics of the 2 cameras vs. my physical limitations, I'll probably have to do just that before choosing one. But another consideration is the computer power needed to edit - especially 4K or QFHD; I already have an off FS5 sample in Long GOP thanks to you Olof; could you or anyone else link me to a similar (i.e. off camera, without grading - re-compressing) sample of the I-Frame the FS7 can produce at 4K? I realize these are huge files, so even more TIA :)

Piotr

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

The 7 and the 5 are very different cams. Both good at what they do. I don't want to go into this in detail here, enough has been written about that.

If you can comfortable use a DSLR, then you will do great with the FS5. It is about the same weight. Yes it can be adopted for shouldering but the FS7 is made specifically for that so it is much better. A shoulder cam actually needs have some heft to be more stable. This could be a problem if you have a medical condition making your shoulders and arms/neck weak and painful.

A simple chest brace for the FS5, I will be making one of these, is really better for prolonged FS5 shooting IMHO. But I also like shooting with it just as is, like I did with my C100, as a matter of fact you can think of the FS5 as a better C100 IMHO.

Also bear in mind that the FS7 is a far more capable camera with many more features and in my opinion superior processing and options/settings and better image quality, but much more complex, not a grab and shoot like the FS5. And it is certainly heavier than an EX3/EX1 but a very nice shoulder cam lighter than the DSR500 (one of my all time fav cams) and cams like that. But if you are on sticks most of the time and not carrying long distances and possible using a wheeled bag. The FS7 may be better.

As far as low light they are about the same, they have the same imager. Much better than the EX1/3 that you now use, as I remember.

Borrow or rent both or at least demo them in a camera store for a long session on shoulder etc. It will then be obvious which works better for you.

I hope you are having a great winter in Poland. Stay warm...

Not trying to behave like a devil's advocate, but - given my physical handicap, and the fact I will only probably be shooting QFHD for the pleasure of it (should a paid gig arrive, I'd still keep my EX1 with the nano) - perhaps a wiser choice than the FS5 or FS7 would be the X70 (with the paid 4K upgrade)? It is said to be given 100 Mbps capability soon (free this time), so - codec, framerates and bitrates -wise - it's going to become almost exactly as capable as the FS5 (apart from the imager being just 1" vs. S35 size), right? Opinions, please...

Piotr

[Jim Stamos]

Piotr
I too am shooting ex1r am looking at both cameras fs5 and x70.
I've shot with both and was leaning to the fs5 but the 18 105 lens is a pain manually focussing.
I may go with the 70 now although I wish it's focus was quicker like the ex1

[Marcus Durham]

First use in anger today. Yes the stock lens is a bit of a pig to focus but nowhere near as bad as feared. Found it had a tendency to lose focus sometimes when zooming out. Unsure of if this operator error or a "feature" of the lens.

Was shooing at 50 meg HD rather than 4K but the unit behaved itself and the centre zoom was a godsend. Really useful feature to have which makes the stock lens far more useful.

Focus assist via the peaking is very good. Screen interface feels more like the old Z1 than the EX1 though. Large text seems to be back in vogue rather than the neater fonts on the EX1.

Seem to be lacking the focus distance display that the EX1 has. Need to dig into the menus.

So far all the niggles are minor and are probably operator error. Footage looks very nice indeed. A huge step up!

[Piotr Wozniacki]

Originally Posted by Jim Stamos

Piotr
I too am shooting ex1r am looking at both cameras fs5 and x70.
I've shot with both and was leaning to the fs5 but the 18 105 lens is a pain manually focussing.
I may go with the 70 now although I wish it's focus was quicker like the ex1

So it looks like we're in the same boat, Jim. Do you have access to some off-camera clips (no recompression Youtube or Vimeo offer), that would show the reall differences between the FS5 and X70 in low-light sensitivity and noise level?

I used to have the FS100 - a champ in clean picture and low noise even in very low light level situation - but sold it already. Wouldn't like to skimp on an S35 sensor camera only to find out those picture qualities are very noticeably worse! The EX1 - which I'm also planning to sell (only 200 hours on the clock, great condition - so I'm not satisfied with what I'm being offered for it) - is noisy enough :(. TIA,

Piotr

[Jim Stamos]

Piotr
They are are both very good in lowlight
Unless they have a firmware fix for the focus on that lens I'll get the x70.
I've never had the need to change lens.
My ex1r always served my needs.
Plus 2500.00 vs 6000.00
Is quite a difference.
S log is not important for me either.