ENG/EFP with an FS7?

[Peter Newsom]

Hi, I've been using my PDW-f350 for covering sports news for the last eight years, but would like to move up to a 4K camera for production work as well as eng. My 350 is still viable for my work in the sports world, but I would like to be able to integrate the new camera.

Does the FS7 offer the ability to control audio levels while shooting handheld like an ENG camera? Is it suitable for this kind of work.

Any other things I should be aware of when considering this camera?

I have Nikkor AF-S28-70/f2.8D, AFS 80-200/f2.8D, and a AF Micro 60mm/f2.8D, lens. Would they be useful with this camera, along with the supplied Sony lens?

Thanks for any insight into this.

Peter

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Peter Newsom

Any other things I should be aware of when considering this camera?

I have Nikkor AF-S28-70/f2.8D, AFS 80-200/f2.8D, and a AF Micro 60mm/f2.8D, lens. Would they be useful with this camera, along with the supplied Sony lens?

They may be useful, but what about a long range servo zoom?

Thinking of ENG, something like a 12/14x zoom (maybe with doubler) tends to get taken for granted - you don't tend to get such big zoom ranges for such large format cameras. Similarly with wide angle coverage - you'll need something with a focal length of around 18mm.

Worth thinking about B4 lenses with an optical adaptor. It's (wrongly) said that such "lose light", which is not true - they spread the available light over a wider area, so no light actually gets "lost". (As it would in an ND, for example.) The larger sensor will have a higher base ISO than a 2/3" equivalent camera, but the lens will seem to have a smaller f stop than indicated. The two effects largely balance out - so low light performance doesn't get altered much.

What about deliverables, both in file format and media? Are the people you deliver to happy with the FS7 codec range on an XQD card?

[Peter Newsom]

Hi David, thanks for responding.

The only B4 lens that I have is an old SD Fuji from way back in my Betacam days. I currently use a 1/2 inch Fuji HSs 18x5.5 BRD-S38 lens on my f350, but could it be adapted to an FS7?

As to an FS7 format that a broadcaster could accept, I don't know. Everything I send in is either by FTP or Dejero, so as long as it is 60i when it comes out of the SDI or from FCP in mpg4 format I'm good.

I'm not really too worried about the ENG crossover, as my f350 is still fine for what I do. However the FS7 seems to be the production camera of choice for series work in my market these days. They're even shooting fishing shows with them around here. 4K seems to be well established, so I need to begin migrating.

I'm really just discovering this camera, but it seems very nice! Very exciting from an image point of view, and much closer to what I am used to than shooting video on DSLR.

[Jeroen Wolf]

I wonder if the stock zoomlens on the Sony EX3 could be mounted on the FS7. It's a great ENG-lens. It's probably a no-go because of the small sensor on the EX3 but maybe with some sort of adapter?

[Jack Zhang]

EX3 stock lens a 1/2'' lens. Even with a doubler, 1/2'' cannot fit the imaging area of Super35.

You'll need a 2/3'' lens with a doubler.

[Jeroen Wolf]

So that probably means Sony's 28-105 is the best option then... By far not as versatile as the EX3 lens but that's the price of going large sensor, I guess...

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

You'll need a 2/3'' lens with a doubler.

Not so - you need a 2/3" lens, but the better adaptors don't need any doubler. They spread the image circle out by a factor of about 2.7x so that instead of a diameter just big enough for a 2/3" sensor, it's big enough for s35.

eg IBE optics and lenses, professional digital prime lenses for broadcast and cine systems

Theoretically, I assume it would be possible to build something similar to do the same with a 1/2" lens (with a more than 2.7x expansion) - practically, I suspect there's not seen to be a big enough market. There are many more pro B4 lenses around, and more likely to be with people who want to do the adaptation.

[Peter Newsom]

Is there any way power the zoom control on a B4 Lens when using it on a FS7?

What would the wide angle capability of a B4 lens be when used on an FS7?

I know that when I mount my DX AF-S Nikkor12-24.1.4 G ED lens on an FX camera the widest angle I can use is 18mm before encountering vignetting.

[Daniel Epstein]

Peter, If you use this system I think they include a P Tap to lens cable adapter to power the lens

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/854167-REG/MTF_Services_Ltd_mtb4sem_B4_2_3_to_Sony.html

[Peter Newsom]

Well I had the chance to fool around with an fs7 for a few days. Over all I liked it, though I found it more difficult to shoot with than my current camera, a pdw-f350. It definitely made me appreciate my Fuji lens. Granted the lens that the dealer gave me was a Sony 28-200 still camera lens which wasn't really meant to be used for video. I found iris control to be the most problematic. I did hate to give the camera back.

I get to try out an fs5 next week, and I'm starting to think that it might be the camera for me.

Since my main work is eng shooting, delivered in hd, which my f350 does already does quite well, perhaps what I'm really looking for is something that will round out my package on the production end of things. A large sensor camera would let me put the background out of focus for sitdown interviews and give me a look that it's hard to achieve with my current camera. Also the run and gun nature of the camera would be quite attractive. I would likely go for the package that includes the lens.

Thoughts?

[Jeroen Wolf]

Your considerations are very similar to mine and that's why an FS5 will be delivered on my doorsteps tomorrow. Despite the criticism I think -based on what I've seen and heard- that the kitlens is a great allround lens when you first venture into the large sensor format and want and need flexibility and ease of use.
I've held the camera at IBC and fell in love with the package- the (lack of) weight, the balance, the options to shoot ENG style or cinematic, choice of lenses, super slow motion, recording on cheap SD and... the ability to shoot 4K.

It won't be as easy to shoot with as my Sony EX3 but it will kill my Panasonic GH4 that I've been struggling with for documentary shooting.

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Daniel Epstein

If you use this system I think they include a P Tap to lens cable adapter to power the lens

Yes you have to power the lens via a D Tap or similar but VERY IMPORTANT don't just plug it into a D Tap port on a battery otherwise you will fry the lens. It MUST be a regulated 12v supply. I'm using a Hawk-Woods regulated V Mount plate to power the lens. See attached pic. On the FS700 I've used the MTF B4 adapter for close to three years now. Mainly for slo-mo sports grabs but have done some full length football games with the setup and been quite surprised how good the results look. Not had one complaint from broadcasters. The MTF B4 on the FS700 does require a lens with a 2x.

The same setup on an FS5/FS7 shooting in Super 16 Crop mode should enable the use of a B4 without the doubler. The MTF adapter has a .5 objective in it as a 2.5 x magnification was required to cover the S35 sensor. By all accounts the MTF 0.5 adapter with a B4 without a doubler should work quite well.

MTF B4 on FS700

Sony FS700 - First quick test with MTF's B4 2/3" adapter and a SD Fujinon 18 x 7.6 BDERM lens. on Vimeo

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Peter Newsom]

That lens looks great! No CA that I can see. How much was the adapter and the plate? I have an old Fuji BERM 14x lens that might work. Needs some servicing(iris has become stiff after years of dis-use), so it depends on how bad things are inside. Used to be a nice lens.

[Peter Newsom]

double post

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Peter Newsom

How much was the adapter and the plate?

Can't remember what I paid exactly other than it was around the same price as BH Photo's listing.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/854167-REG/MTF_Services_Ltd_mtb4sem_B4_2_3_to_Sony.html

The Hawk-Woods adapter wasn't cheap:

Hawk-Woods - Broadcast Power Solutions

This is the one I am using.

VL-CA4 | V-Lok Camera Adaptor - 4x Hirose, 1x Power-con 12v 35w - Hawk-Woods Ltd

To be honest though if I was doing it again I would be buying any one of the much cheaper V Mount plates off eBay that have a regulated 12volt D Tap out.

You would also need a 12pin Hirose to D Tap cable to power the lens from the D Tap 12v output. These eBay ones are a fraction of the price that MTF charge for their equivalent cable.

Anton Bauer Power TAP D TAP TO 12 PIN Hirose Cable B4 2 3" Lens FOZ | eBay

One thing to consider. These B4 lenses are way heavier than any e-mount lens so you really have to run a rail support system to keep everything shipshape and tight. You could get away without rails but I would be very wary using it like that. All the necessary lens mount bits to attach to rails come with the MTF kit listed above.

As I said all in all I was pretty happy with the results considering the overall price of the necessary bits. If I go for an FS7 or FS5 for that matter I wouldn't hesitate to use this kit on either of those cameras. It's hard to get away from the fact that a good constant aperture parfocal servo zoom is a good tool to have. B4 lenses evolved into what they are today over a period of many years because circumstances demanded that sort of performance and flexibility for fast news gathering. To be able to use modern large format cameras with that sort of lens flexibility is a pleasure.

This is the AbelCine unit. A lot more expensive but doesn't need a doubler.

https://www.abelcine.com/store/HDx35...tical-Adapter/

Might be worth a watch.

FS7 E-mount to B4 2/3" ENG lens adaptor review - MTF Services - YouTube

Remember though with the center crop upgrade coming for the FS7 you should be good to go without a doubler lens. Don't quote me 100% on that as I haven't checked that out just yet but hope to do so in the next week or so on an FS5. If it works okay on the FS5 it should be fine for the FS7.

EDIT: This relates to an AF100 which of course is MFT but what is interesting is this is a direct comparison between the MTF B4 adapter and the Abel Cine - IB/E Optics HDx2 B4 adapter plus this test uses both SD and HD glass. Very close in this test. Worth having a look and read.

ENG to AF100 Lens Mount Comparison: HDx2 vs. B4 to m4/3 on Vimeo

Good luck!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney