New Sony PXW-FS5

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

Sony cares too much about XQD sales to allow higher speed SD card tech in their cameras. If they want to support 60p, add UHS-II support, but they've stalled on that for 2 years likely because they're seeing XQD sales not meeting expectations and they want to keep XQD alive.

I am sure they have UHS-11 U3 support because that is what I use in my AX100 !! I am sure both the X70 and FS5 support these cards or they have a whole bunch of Sony consumer products with superior card support. Since the X70 has a lot of the FDR-AX100 in it I am sure the card support is the same. They just do not want to support 50/60P or in the case of the X70 even 100Mbps 30P that the AX100 already does. All my cameras are Sony but they do annoy frequently with their strange marketing of features. I think I paid about $200 for a 64G XQD N series card for my FDR-AX1 when I got it 2 years ago and last week bought a Lexar 128G UHS-11 U3 card for $110. XQD makes sense recording 600Mbps XAVC but for 150Mbps LongGOP QFHD it is overkill or too expensive.

Ron Evans

[Jack Zhang]

Originally Posted by Monday Isa

Jack why is it the PXW-FS7 wouldn't work for you?

I'm looking for something the same price as a X200, with a 1'' sensor and fixed lens, 4K, and 60 frames in 4K. I don't need Super35, but if you are going to offer it anyways, at least give it the lowest 150mbps 60fps option. But knowing Sony, they don't want to cannibalize XQD sales.

The FS7 is dated, it likely has setbacks in it's HDMI output. It may be HDMI 2.0, but what's the pixel format it's pushing out? The DVX200 tricked us with 8-bit only output out the HDMI 2.0 in 4K 60p. Even though it's 4:2:2, some hardware restriction only allows 10-bit at the slower frame rates. My bet is on power, that it's still using 7.4V batteries.

I hate to see new cameras purposely take a step back when everything else has nothing wrong with it. The design of the FS5 is a godsend, but the limitations are just enough that when the new stopgap model comes out, you'll regret making your current purchase.

[Monday Isa]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

The FS7 is dated, it likely has setbacks in it's HDMI output. It may be HDMI 2.0, but what's the pixel format it's pushing out? The DVX200 tricked us with 8-bit only output out the HDMI 2.0 in 4K 60p. Even though it's 4:2:2, some hardware restriction only allows 10-bit at the slower frame rates. My bet is on power, that it's still using 7.4V batteries.

I understand what you need and your next best bet will be CES 2016 or NAB 2016. The fixed lens eng cams are due for replacement. AX1/Z100 Canon XF300. Hopefully they go 1" route. The FS7 is no where near dated though. You lost me there. HD-SDI 10 -bit out.

[Jack Zhang]

Originally Posted by Monday Isa

The FS7 is no where near dated though. You lost me there. HD-SDI 10 -bit out.

Yes, in HD.

The HDMI 2.0 port in an ideal world should be 10-bit as well, but if it's something weird like 8-bit in 4K 60p, it's not worth having an output mode inferior to the internal recording.

Like I said, bleeding edge = dated practices of weird limitations.

You could do worse, the FDR-AX1 and PXW-Z100 both output 8bit 4:2:0 out the HDMI for it's "HDMI 2.0" 4K 60p output.

[Monday Isa]

Why is it HD-SDI is not good enough though? It's 10-bit in all modes and most all recorders can accept that output. The Gh4 is the only camera I know of with 10-bit HDMI.

[Jack Zhang]

Cause it can't do 4K.

SMPTE has not standardized a 6G or 12G SDI standard so the SDI outputs without the extension unit on the FS7 are all HD 3G.

The only 6G or 12G standard out there of current is proprietary to Blackmagic Design, which means when the official SMPTE one is drafted, it will not be cross compatible and there will be fragmentation. All the camera manufacturers are playing it safe, sticking to current SMPTE standards. That's 3G-SDI ONLY.

HDMI though has evolved to carry 4K. This is why the 7Q+ and the A7s work so well, cause that sure as hell has no SDI port.

[Monday Isa]

Then sorry man. Enjoy the wait. The FS5/7 weren't made for you.

[Jim Stamos]

Ron I'm aware of those focus methods,just need to know if the focus ring on this camera is infinite like the x70 or like the ex1r where u can focus fast on the ring.
I'll try calling Sony tomorrow
Thx

[Gabe Strong]

What you say to your clients is of course up to you.
If I had clients that demanded 4k60p (which I certainly
do not) I would be looking at buying a FS7. Or
alternatively, an Odyssey 7q to go with my FS700.
If you are saying they demand 4k60p but won't pay rates
which would allow you to buy a FS7 then I'd tend to agree...
that is a client problem.

[Gabe Strong]

Originally Posted by Jim Stamos

Ron I'm aware of those focus methods,just need to know if the focus ring on this camera is infinite like the x70 or like the ex1r where u can focus fast on the ring.
I'll try calling Sony tomorrow
Thx

The ring on the 'kit' lens that comes with the FS5
is infinite/free spinning. It is also 'focus by wire' which
pretty much sucks. That is the main drawback of that
lens.

[Andy Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

... The design of the FS5 is a godsend, but the limitations are just enough that when the new stopgap model comes out, you'll regret making your current purchase.

I hear you Jack - but at the rate Sony spits out new cameras that will always be the case. Meanwhile, I would love to shoot with the capabilities this FS5 offers now, in addition to the PMW-300 and C100 I already use - even if the FS5's features are not perfect for everyone they fit my specific needs right now.

Here's why I've pre-ordered one (lifted from my website).

I've been sitting on the fence about a new cam for nearly a year now and have been thinking hard about buying a C300 MkII all summer. But in the end it’s just too damn expensive an ecosystem for a 4K camera that still has some (in my view) serious limitations, especially concerning high frame rate options. Sure it will have some terrific capabilities, but media costs and those huge 4K files for archiving worry me. I also looked hard at the Sony FS7 but, whilst it’s a terrific camera, it’s just too cumbersome for my specific needs (and it’s sluggish menu system, bugs etc. would annoy me - plus it still needs add ons to make it a true shoulder mount cam anyway). I’m also considering buying a brushless gimbal and I really wanted a smaller cam for that.

So I sat and waited for IBC and, as I’d hoped, Sony launched something smaller - the PXW-FS5 on 11th September. It looks like a Canon C100 MkII killer to me! I pre-ordered one immediately (and a Metabones MkIV EF to NEX adapter, both with CVP.com) as this cam will fit my needs far better.

With 10-bit Full HD (4.2.2 1080p50 XAVC Long GoP at 50 Mbps) the Sony PXW-FS5 should be a terrific S35 successor to my Canon C100. The PXW-FS5 has a much better codec than what Canon is offering in the C100 MkII (although the Inter-frame version of XAVC would have been even better). It also has Full HD HFR (high frame rate) burst options at up to 240 FPS. Furthermore, it’ll allow me to dabble in 4K (actually QFHD) with its internal 8-bit 4.2.0 XAVC Long-GoP at 100Mbps capability - sure more of an “entry level” 4K capability for a S35 sensor cam - 10-bit 4.2.2 and a higher bit rate would have been terrific. However, what’s on offer is good enough for my specific needs (at this point in time) as 4K is still some way off with my client base. Even better, a future firmware update for “true 4K” and raw output has been promised - at a price and date yet to be announced - so with an external recorder some future options might become possible.

Just posting this as I always find it very useful to read how others make that most difficult of decisions - buying a new camera. Sure, the FS5 may not be for you Jack and you've explained why really well - but for others my personal perspective may have some value in helping them decide to consider the FS5 - or not.

Hope this is useful to someone!

[John Mitchell]

Jack - you haven't found the right camera for you in your budget range. But what occurs to me is who are you competing with? How do they do it and beat you on price? At the moment no one has access to your perfect camera at your price range so if clients really want it, charge more and work out financially how you structure it. If clients won't pay they don't really want it.

Sony have positioned the PXW-FS5 so it does less than the FS7 and that in turn does less than the F5. It's hardly surpising that a camera that costs less doesn't have every feature that the more expensive ones do.

There are very few camera's out that shoot 4K 60P but the kind of cam you want I expect will probably come first from one of the smaller players. Then Sony will respond..

[Dylan Couper]

Jack... Have you seen Goodfellas?
I can sum up your ENTIRE client problem in one scene.
Watch this... Except imagine him saying "you want 4k-60?"

YouTube (Short URL)

The reason you have a problem here is because you aren't charging enough to buy the camera you want... Not because it doesn't exist!
Learn to charge more or get higher end clients, make more money, buy an F55 or whatever you want.

[Jeroen Wolf]

This camera has so much going for it. I was eyeballing the FS7 but after holding this thing at IBC I was pretty much sold. I could hold this for hours. Reminded me vaguely of the trusty&ancient PD-150 (shooting through the viewfinder) - but with much better ergonomics. The ND-filter implementation is brilliant.

Small and powerful- and with images coming out of it like the FS7! Who doesn't want an FS5? 60fps lovers...?

I have shot entire documentaries on the Panasonic GH2, broadcast here in the Netherlands. Don't get hung up on numbers...

[Jack Zhang]

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

The reason you have a problem here is because you aren't charging enough to buy the camera you want... Not because it doesn't exist!
Learn to charge more or get higher end clients, make more money, buy an F55 or whatever you want.

The clients I get literally are via networking and they constantly low ball me. If I communicated that I wanted ridiculous rates for stuff, I get no work. Even offering my services for half the rental rate of my current camera, the EX1R, I got NO GIGS.

I'm also a terrible communicator at cold calling and etc. So all my client relationships are friendship based, not professional. It's my condition that hinders me too.