Pull downs and 24p work flows at DVinfo.net

Kevin Martorana · May 4th, 2015, 08:32 PM

Hi everyone ! So we have our new F7. Doing alot of reading and test shooting. But here is my one issue I hope some folks will 'chime' in on. We're used to shooting in 24p but having the camera automatically do a 2:3 pulldown so we get the film look...but work in a 29.97 time line. Why ? About 45% of our work is tv spots. AND..usually there are motion graphics associated with them.

If we use 24p footage...then add 24fps graphics...when that is downcoverted to 29.97 for a tv file...often times (with moving gfx) you will get the studdering due to the added junk frames.

We have Sound Devices Pix240's. Believe it or not...the 24p output from the FS7 into the Pix 240...and the 240 can do the downcovert to get a 29.97 file. Only problem is...for about a year their Avid DNX codec is broken and their not fixing it. So we've been looking at Atomos and Convergent Design. NO downconvert on their boxes. OH..they can TAKE junk frames out...but not add.

So...what is everyone out there doing? If we're doing just a project that ISN'T broadcast...we can stay in the 24p world...all the way thru delivery to the web/pc...etc. it's the broadcast issue.

Thanks for your thoughts !!!

Doug Jensen · May 5th, 2015, 09:35 AM

Have you tried doing 30P through the whole workflow, including shooting?
30P looks a lot more "filmic" than 60i, yet keeps the workflow easier for broadcast than 24P.

Kevin Martorana · May 5th, 2015, 09:40 AM

Thanks Doug...
yes...30p is an option. But let's face it....still doesn't have the look of 24p. ;)

Nate Haustein · May 5th, 2015, 09:55 AM

I just did this. 23.98p all the way through and then used Compressor to convert to 60i from a 23.98 master file at the very end. You can also use after effects to do this, but I don't know the workflow off the top of my head. Here's what I did: https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/20/869678

Kevin Martorana · May 5th, 2015, 02:35 PM

Yup...and as mentioned in that thread........if you have moving gfx....adding a pull down to a 24p gfx...causes jitter. So you have to have two projects......the 24p cut...then a 29.97 cut to bring in your gfx produced at 29.7 so their smooth.

Bummer...and pain. ;(

Amazed our Pix 240's can do the 3:2 pulldown directly from the 24p signal....so we can put everything on a 29.97 timeline. Now if they can get the avid codecs to work again........... :(

May 4th, 2015, 08:32 PM	#1
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	Pull downs and 24p work flows Hi everyone ! So we have our new F7. Doing alot of reading and test shooting. But here is my one issue I hope some folks will 'chime' in on. We're used to shooting in 24p but having the camera automatically do a 2:3 pulldown so we get the film look...but work in a 29.97 time line. Why ? About 45% of our work is tv spots. AND..usually there are motion graphics associated with them. If we use 24p footage...then add 24fps graphics...when that is downcoverted to 29.97 for a tv file...often times (with moving gfx) you will get the studdering due to the added junk frames. We have Sound Devices Pix240's. Believe it or not...the 24p output from the FS7 into the Pix 240...and the 240 can do the downcovert to get a 29.97 file. Only problem is...for about a year their Avid DNX codec is broken and their not fixing it. So we've been looking at Atomos and Convergent Design. NO downconvert on their boxes. OH..they can TAKE junk frames out...but not add. So...what is everyone out there doing? If we're doing just a project that ISN'T broadcast...we can stay in the 24p world...all the way thru delivery to the web/pc...etc. it's the broadcast issue. Thanks for your thoughts !!! __________________ Shooting Video since 1/2" EIAJ reel to reel and editing on 2" QUAD machines. http://www.takeoneprod.com

May 5th, 2015, 09:35 AM	#2
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Re: Pull downs and 24p work flows Have you tried doing 30P through the whole workflow, including shooting? 30P looks a lot more "filmic" than 60i, yet keeps the workflow easier for broadcast than 24P. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

May 5th, 2015, 09:40 AM	#3
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	Re: Pull downs and 24p work flows Thanks Doug... yes...30p is an option. But let's face it....still doesn't have the look of 24p. ;) __________________ Shooting Video since 1/2" EIAJ reel to reel and editing on 2" QUAD machines. http://www.takeoneprod.com

May 5th, 2015, 09:55 AM	#4
Nate Haustein Trustee Join Date: May 2007 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,313	Re: Pull downs and 24p work flows I just did this. 23.98p all the way through and then used Compressor to convert to 60i from a 23.98 master file at the very end. You can also use after effects to do this, but I don't know the workflow off the top of my head. Here's what I did: https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/20/869678 __________________ Nate Haustein PXW-FX9 / FCPX www.flightcreativemedia.com

May 5th, 2015, 02:35 PM	#5
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	Re: Pull downs and 24p work flows Yup...and as mentioned in that thread........if you have moving gfx....adding a pull down to a 24p gfx...causes jitter. So you have to have two projects......the 24p cut...then a 29.97 cut to bring in your gfx produced at 29.7 so their smooth. Bummer...and pain. ;( Amazed our Pix 240's can do the 3:2 pulldown directly from the 24p signal....so we can put everything on a 29.97 timeline. Now if they can get the avid codecs to work again........... :( __________________ Shooting Video since 1/2" EIAJ reel to reel and editing on 2" QUAD machines. http://www.takeoneprod.com