Sony Fs7 & Sony E PZ 18-105 f/4

[Leonard Levy]

Originally Posted by J. David Pope

Leonard- I am finding the Sony 18-105mm damn near impossible to focus manually. The focus throw is incredibly short and the action of the electronic focus is not always smooth or dependable.

It is possible to use the lens and possible to attain focus, but the lens is making me a worse camera operator. I am imaging an editor seeing my work and thinking I just really suck at finding focus.

You move the focus ring a fraction and the lens goes from infinity to 10ft. And everything is made worse by the lack of focus end stop. This lens just wasn't designed for manual focusing.

Hmm…. I haven't noticed that but as I mentioned, i'm recovering from an operation and its just sitting on a tripod in my living room. It seems fine in that environment and push auto seems to work well though it bounces around so much that's useless during a shot . I probably haven't even tried to go to infinity though because its out the window. I'll look more tomorrow. You have the PZ version right ?

[Christopher Young]

"How is the zoom speed on the 18-105?"

Considerably faster than the 18-200. Just going by feel about 2.5 x faster. The 18-105 if used with a Varizoom VZ-Rock controller seems even quicker again by about another third. I find its speed range quite usable for most work. Far more so than that glacially slow 18-200 SELP that also has the stop / start stutters at each end of its zoom travel. Something the 18-105 doesn't suffer from thankfully.

For the money and for what it does the 18-105 is pretty good value really. Sure it has its shortcomings, I don't exactly love its fly-by-wire feel but what other constant aperture F4 parfocal lens are you going to buy for that sort of money? Check it out.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Leonard Levy]

Christopher,
Thanks for the info.
I bought the older 18-200 non SELP that isn't a power zoom but after using the PZ 18-105 was thinking of ordering the SELP powered 18-200 to see if I could get the same kind of power zoom moves.
However it sounds like you are saying not to bother . Correct?

When you say the 18-105 is faster by a third with the Varizoom controller is that compared with the rocker arm on an FS7?

Have you compared the Libec remote to the Varizoom? I use a Libec with my EX-1 and its not half bad.

Lenny

[Christopher Young]

Sorry Leonard.

I should have made myself clearer. I haven't tried any of these items on the FS7. All comments relate to these lenses being used on an FS700. In the case of the Varizoom relative to the zoom demand on the FS700 handle then yes it does seem quicker end to end using the Varizoom with the 18-105. Re the 18-200 SELP then yes it is almost identical to its brother the non servo version.

I had the 'silver bullet' 18-200 but needed a servo lens so took the punt and went for the SELP version. It is slower than the 18-105 but it is still totally usable. I find it a good lens for corporate talking heads on podiums; concerts etc where I need the extra length but still want servo capability but not necessarily needing a fast one. I won't get rid of it that's for sure.

I know of the Libec controller but have no experience with it. I like the Varizoom because of its wide zoom rocker. I find its width one of the main things that allows for smoother take offs and landings.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Leonard Levy]

Thanks Christopher,
Can you get a smooth takeoff and landing with SELP 18-200? I am able to with PZ 18-105.
My guess is there won't be much difference between the rocker arm on the FS700 and the FS7.

[Christopher Young]

Hi Leonard ~

As I mentioned in an earlier post the 18-200, both models, have this odd momentary 'jink' as they take off from either full magnification or full wide. It's been discussed on this forum in the past if you search back through the old posts.

During this take off 'jink' these lenses go fractionally soft for a fraction of a second. I avoid this by making sure the lens is never zoomed in or out to 100% either end. Using the zoom percentage display in the viewfinder I can make sure I don't go above 95% to 97% of max zoom. If I stick to this pattern of use then yes with the Varizoom I can get a smooth take off and landing.

This jink is nowhere as noticeable at full wide due to the much greater depth of field on the wide end. Not a nice feature of these lenses but I still find the lens gets a fair bit of use in spite of its quirks. Put it this way I would rather have it than not.

I guess it's performance on the S7 would be similar as it appears to be the lens that is limited in speed. Most likely so that it can keep up with the auto focus when you use it.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Ray Lee]

Sadly found I can't pull focus as I shoot with my Sony lenses either (50 and 35 1.8's) on the fs100 or fs700, its the speed change that gets me, a tiny turn can be 20 foot or 2 inches. Was really hoping the fs7 firmware would/could alter the fly by wire focus characteristics but must be built into the less.

Originally Posted by J. David Pope

Leonard- I am finding the Sony 18-105mm damn near impossible to focus manually. The focus throw is incredibly short and the action of the electronic focus is not always smooth or dependable.

It is possible to use the lens and possible to attain focus, but the lens is making me a worse camera operator. I am imaging an editor seeing my work and thinking I just really suck at finding focus.

You move the focus ring a fraction and the lens goes from infinity to 10ft. And everything is made worse by the lack of focus end stop. This lens just wasn't designed for manual focusing.

[J. David Pope]

I didn't think it was just me. I am pretty confident in my focus pulling ability. Like I said, it's damn near impossible to pull focus in a usable manner with these Sony e-mount lenses. I suspect it's the same with the A-mount, "Alpha" lenses.

The case will likely be different with the yet to be released Sony FE 28-135 f/4. Looks as if that lens will be more like the kit zoom for the Ex3. I could pull focus reasonably on that lens. Maddening that all of the reviews of the Sony FE 28-135mm fail to mention whether or not the lens has focus end stop.

I found that the 80-104mm E-mount did not yield the same "S35-look" shallow depth of field that you can get with the Canon EF glass. Do you think the reason for that is the E-mount glass is made for S35 while the Canon EF glass is made for FF? Or is it more that the Sony 18-105mm is an f/4 lens while the Canon's I have experience with are f/2.8 zooms?

I was going to wait for the Sony FE 28-135 to be released but as a result of the difficulty in riding focus on the Sony 18-105mm I purchased a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 USM II.

I really hated to spend $2K on a lens that doesn't have focus end stop, doesn't have an iris ring, has such short focus throw, and isn't truly par focal. But that's the nature of things these days. Forced compromise.

I will throw a party the day that I no longer have to use zooms intended for still photography. You are all invited, of course.

[Brian T. Young]

[QUOTE=
I found that the 80-104mm E-mount did not yield the same "S35-look" shallow depth of field that you can get with the Canon EF glass. Do you think the reason for that is the E-mount glass is made for S35 while the Canon EF glass is made for FF? Or is it more that the Sony 18-105mm is an f/4 lens while the Canon's I have experience with are f/2.8 zooms?
[/QUOTE]

I would suggest that it's a factor of the f/4 vs. f/2.8 as you pointed out.

[Gabe Strong]

Originally Posted by J. David Pope

I didn't think it was just me. I am pretty confident in my focus pulling ability. Like I said, it's damn near impossible to pull focus in a usable manner with these Sony e-mount lenses. I suspect it's the same with the A-mount, "Alpha" lenses.

The case will likely be different with the yet to be released Sony FE 28-135 f/4. Looks as if that lens will be more like the kit zoom for the Ex3. I could pull focus reasonably on that lens. Maddening that all of the reviews of the Sony FE 28-135mm fail to mention whether or not the lens has focus end stop.

I found that the 80-104mm E-mount did not yield the same "S35-look" shallow depth of field that you can get with the Canon EF glass. Do you think the reason for that is the E-mount glass is made for S35 while the Canon EF glass is made for FF? Or is it more that the Sony 18-105mm is an f/4 lens while the Canon's I have experience with are f/2.8 zooms?

I was going to wait for the Sony FE 28-135 to be released but as a result of the difficulty in riding focus on the Sony 18-105mm I purchased a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 USM II.

I really hated to spend $2K on a lens that doesn't have focus end stop, doesn't have an iris ring, has such short focus throw, and isn't truly par focal. But that's the nature of things these days. Forced compromise.

I will throw a party the day that I no longer have to use zooms intended for still photography. You are all invited, of course.

On the FS700 you can use 'tap to focus' with the 18-105 lens. Just tap on the
LCD screen where you want to focus. Then if you want to 'rack' focus to another
part of the shot, just tap on the screen in a new place. Makes it pretty easy to
pull focus and you don't even have to touch the fly by wire 'manual' focus ring.

[Dave Sperling]

Originally Posted by J. David Pope

I didn't think it was just me. I am pretty confident in my focus pulling ability. Like I said, it's damn near impossible to pull focus in a usable manner with these Sony e-mount lenses. I suspect it's the same with the A-mount, "Alpha" lenses.

The case will likely be different with the yet to be released Sony FE 28-135 f/4. Looks as if that lens will be more like the kit zoom for the Ex3. I could pull focus reasonably on that lens. Maddening that all of the reviews of the Sony FE 28-135mm fail to mention whether or not the lens has focus end stop.

I found that the 80-104mm E-mount did not yield the same "S35-look" shallow depth of field that you can get with the Canon EF glass. Do you think the reason for that is the E-mount glass is made for S35 while the Canon EF glass is made for FF? Or is it more that the Sony 18-105mm is an f/4 lens while the Canon's I have experience with are f/2.8 zooms?

I was going to wait for the Sony FE 28-135 to be released but as a result of the difficulty in riding focus on the Sony 18-105mm I purchased a Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 USM II.

I really hated to spend $2K on a lens that doesn't have focus end stop, doesn't have an iris ring, has such short focus throw, and isn't truly par focal. But that's the nature of things these days. Forced compromise.

I will throw a party the day that I no longer have to use zooms intended for still photography. You are all invited, of course.

Yesterday was doing a shoot with two FS7's and an A7s. Had the E mount (full frame) zeiss 24-70 f/4 on the A7s, and focus pulling on it was incredibly difficult and unpredictable - as you describe it.

On one FS7 had the Zeiss Alpha mount 28-70 2.8 with an LA-EA2 adapter - and though the focus feel is not perfect it is 10x easier to pull focus than with the e-mount lens. The other FS7 camera had a Nikon adapter and different (old style) zooms on it -- 28-70 2.8 or 80-200 2.8. The older nikons have the advantage of having a manual f/stop ring and focus that works perfectly for pulling (though in the opposite direction from most video or cine lenses). And the 28-70 2.8 has the advantage of being one of the sharpest stills zooms I have ever seen. Plus the added advantage of being able to use on the A7s because it covers the full frame. (Of course for walking around stuff the image stabilization was a big help with the e-mount lens on the A7s...)

[J. David Pope]

Originally Posted by Gabe Strong

On the FS700 you can use 'tap to focus' with the 18-105 lens. Just tap on the
LCD screen where you want to focus. Then if you want to 'rack' focus to another
part of the shot, just tap on the screen in a new place. Makes it pretty easy to
pull focus and you don't even have to touch the fly by wire 'manual' focus ring.

A good tip for FS700 users. But not of much use when shooting handheld.

I assume this technique also tends to make the focus "jump" rather than smoothly rack. The length of time of a rack focus is often important. In other words, there are times where you want to slowly lead the viewer with the focus or slowly rack from multiple focus points. For instance, from the door of a room to a person sitting halfway to the door to a near object in the foreground. See person exiting door...see jilted lover sitting on couch weeping...see goodbye note on table in foreground. Or you want to slowly rack from the scoreboard at a sports venue to the dejected losing players seated on a bench in the foreground then rack everything in the shot out of focus.

The macro ring on B4 mount zooms was great for taking the entire shot out of focus or going from everything out of focus to your pre-chosen focal point. The detent or notch on the macro told you when it was back in the deactivated position. It lightly clicks back into place. With the macro on those zooms you could rack focus all the way to the front element on the lens. A buddy of mine once had an NFL player sign the uv filter on the lens while live on the air. He racked focus to the pen tip and the autograph and then back to the player as he trotted away.

[J. David Pope]

Originally Posted by Dave Sperling

Yesterday was doing a shoot with two FS7's and an A7s. Had the E mount (full frame) zeiss 24-70 f/4 on the A7s, and focus pulling on it was incredibly difficult and unpredictable - as you describe it.

On one FS7 had the Zeiss Alpha mount 28-70 2.8 with an LA-EA2 adapter - and though the focus feel is not perfect it is 10x easier to pull focus than with the e-mount lens. The other FS7 camera had a Nikon adapter and different (old style) zooms on it -- 28-70 2.8 or 80-200 2.8. The older nikons have the advantage of having a manual f/stop ring and focus that works perfectly for pulling (though in the opposite direction from most video or cine lenses). And the 28-70 2.8 has the advantage of being one of the sharpest stills zooms I have ever seen.

when you say "the 28-70 2.8 has the advantage of being one of the sharpest stills zooms I have ever seen." are you referring to the Nikon 28-70mm?

I believe you made a slight mistake in that the Sony Zeiss Alpha is a 24-70mm, not a 28-70mm. Just wanted to clarify whether you are saying it's the Nikon that is so sharp or the Sony Zeiss.

A tip for anyone using the Sony 18-105mm- The focus ring and zoom ring are very close together and both have the exact same texture and circumference. As a result it's easy to mistake the zoom for the focus. To address this I put a rubber lens band on the focus ring. That way it has a tactile difference from the zoom ring. When reaching blind for the focus ring the rubber feel of the focus lets you know that you are on the correct ring.

[Dave Sperling]

Originally Posted by J. David Pope

when you say "the 28-70 2.8 has the advantage of being one of the sharpest stills zooms I have ever seen." are you referring to the Nikon 28-70mm?

I believe you made a slight mistake in that the Sony Zeiss Alpha is a 24-70mm, not a 28-70mm. Just wanted to clarify whether you are saying it's the Nikon that is so sharp or the Sony Zeiss.

Yes, the lens I'm referring to as the sharpest stills zoom I've seen is the Nikon 28-70 2.8

Yes, you're right about the Sony Zeiss Alpha being 24-70 (That one belongs to the producer, so I don't have it in front of me to refer to.)

Sorry about any confusion.

[Gabe Strong]

Originally Posted by J. David Pope

A good tip for FS700 users. But not of much use when shooting handheld.

I assume this technique also tends to make the focus "jump" rather than smoothly rack. The length of time of a rack focus is often important. In other words, there are times where you want to slowly lead the viewer with the focus or slowly rack from multiple focus points. For instance, from the door of a room to a person sitting halfway to the door to a near object in the foreground. See person exiting door...see jilted lover sitting on couch weeping...see goodbye note on table in foreground. Or you want to slowly rack from the scoreboard at a sports venue to the dejected losing players seated on a bench in the foreground then rack everything in the shot out of focus.

The macro ring on B4 mount zooms was great for taking the entire shot out of focus or going from everything out of focus to your pre-chosen focal point. The detent or notch on the macro told you when it was back in the deactivated position. It lightly clicks back into place. With the macro on those zooms you could rack focus all the way to the front element on the lens. A buddy of mine once had an NFL player sign the uv filter on the lens while live on the air. He racked focus to the pen tip and the autograph and then back to the player as he trotted away.

You can set the amount of time you want it to take
to rack focus from point 1 to point 2. 1 second,
2 seconds, 4 seconds or whatever. I think it is
called focus transition and you set it in half second
increments. So if you want the focus to 'jump' quickly
you can have it do that, but if you'd rather have it slowly
shift focus as you said from a person going out the door
to person crying on couch....just set the focus
transition speed to a slower speed.