Does this 60p workflow make sense? at DVinfo.net

Dave Sperling · September 15th, 2012, 12:15 PM

Hello,
I have some shooting I'd like to do in 1080/60p
My client wants slow-mo at 1080p, and will be editing in Sony Vegas, so this is what I'm thinking of doing:

Set F3 to 1080/60i
Enable dual link outputs, which should then output 1080/60p
Will presumably set camera shutter to 1/120th
Record to C-D Gemini recorder.
Play back from Gemini as 4:2:2 and record directly to NanoFlash recorder (gemini seems to play back in 2:1 slow motion at 29.97p), which will then record the slow motion playback.
The NanoFlash MXF files will become the masters and can be edited directly in Vegas.
I did a test this morning and it all seems to work.
I already own the Gemini and NanoFlash, so it was easy to plug them into the workflow.
I don't really want to transfer straight from the Gemini's SSDs, since the Gemini records 60p to both of them simultaneously (and since I only have 3 512GB SSDs, I really only have one 'set of 2'), so I'll probably need to shoot / transfer / format SSDs / reuse SSDs.

So what I'm wondering is whether this all makes sense, or whether I'm missing anything in my logic?
Not planning on shooting S-Log because the NanoFlash is part of the workflow, plus I have a feeling the director/editor's color-correct skills may not be at that point.

Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks

Dennis Dillon · September 15th, 2012, 12:52 PM

David,
Did not realize the 60P PB on the Gemini was 2:1. ? How does the 422 8 bit material look zoomed in?

Dave Sperling · September 15th, 2012, 02:33 PM

Hi Dennis,
Yes, the first test I did was to toss some stuff up in the air to see what the playback looked like. With their latest firmware (released yesterday) I can apparently set the project speed on the Gemini to 23.98 or 24 if I want 2.5x playback slowdown, but haven't tested that.
Looks like I'm getting full 1080 sharpness from the playback. Recording at 100Mbit LongGOP data rate on the Nano. Not seeing any artifacting if I blowup. Will probably know more after I take it out and shoot some waves crashing at the beach tomorrow...

Alister Chapman · September 15th, 2012, 03:37 PM

Interesting workflow. I'll have to try it for myself, sounds useful and avoids needing to take a laptop. I see no reason why there should be any significant quality loss as your first encode is to 100Mb/s on the Nano which we already know to be very good.

Jack Zhang · September 15th, 2012, 10:14 PM

With the DNxHD compressed upgrade coming later, in case there is 1080p60 support, you can skip the Nanoflash step and record audio at the same time at 1080p60. I do caution black frames on Vegas however. Any other NLE shouldn't have this problem though.

Mark Kenfield · September 17th, 2012, 12:02 AM

What a fascinating workaround! Recording from a recorder to get slow-motion. Very interesting.

I suppose this will be less of an issue once the Gemini has DNxHD recording enabled (at up to 60fps).

September 15th, 2012, 12:15 PM	#1
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Does this 60p workflow make sense? Hello, I have some shooting I'd like to do in 1080/60p My client wants slow-mo at 1080p, and will be editing in Sony Vegas, so this is what I'm thinking of doing: Set F3 to 1080/60i Enable dual link outputs, which should then output 1080/60p Will presumably set camera shutter to 1/120th Record to C-D Gemini recorder. Play back from Gemini as 4:2:2 and record directly to NanoFlash recorder (gemini seems to play back in 2:1 slow motion at 29.97p), which will then record the slow motion playback. The NanoFlash MXF files will become the masters and can be edited directly in Vegas. I did a test this morning and it all seems to work. I already own the Gemini and NanoFlash, so it was easy to plug them into the workflow. I don't really want to transfer straight from the Gemini's SSDs, since the Gemini records 60p to both of them simultaneously (and since I only have 3 512GB SSDs, I really only have one 'set of 2'), so I'll probably need to shoot / transfer / format SSDs / reuse SSDs. So what I'm wondering is whether this all makes sense, or whether I'm missing anything in my logic? Not planning on shooting S-Log because the NanoFlash is part of the workflow, plus I have a feeling the director/editor's color-correct skills may not be at that point. Any suggestions appreciated! Thanks

September 15th, 2012, 12:52 PM	#2
Dennis Dillon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hobe Sound, Florida Posts: 213	Re: Does this 60p workflow make sense? David, Did not realize the 60P PB on the Gemini was 2:1. ? How does the 422 8 bit material look zoomed in?

September 15th, 2012, 02:33 PM	#3
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Does this 60p workflow make sense? Hi Dennis, Yes, the first test I did was to toss some stuff up in the air to see what the playback looked like. With their latest firmware (released yesterday) I can apparently set the project speed on the Gemini to 23.98 or 24 if I want 2.5x playback slowdown, but haven't tested that. Looks like I'm getting full 1080 sharpness from the playback. Recording at 100Mbit LongGOP data rate on the Nano. Not seeing any artifacting if I blowup. Will probably know more after I take it out and shoot some waves crashing at the beach tomorrow...

September 15th, 2012, 03:37 PM	#4
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Does this 60p workflow make sense? Interesting workflow. I'll have to try it for myself, sounds useful and avoids needing to take a laptop. I see no reason why there should be any significant quality loss as your first encode is to 100Mb/s on the Nano which we already know to be very good. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 15th, 2012, 10:14 PM	#5
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: Does this 60p workflow make sense? With the DNxHD compressed upgrade coming later, in case there is 1080p60 support, you can skip the Nanoflash step and record audio at the same time at 1080p60. I do caution black frames on Vegas however. Any other NLE shouldn't have this problem though.

September 17th, 2012, 12:02 AM	#6
Mark Kenfield Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 470	Re: Does this 60p workflow make sense? What a fascinating workaround! Recording from a recorder to get slow-motion. Very interesting. I suppose this will be less of an issue once the Gemini has DNxHD recording enabled (at up to 60fps).