emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? at DVinfo.net

Leonard Levy · September 4th, 2012, 07:29 PM

I just arrived for a job tomorrow morning. My first job using Slog into a PIX 240 to record 422 Pro Res. I have a SmallHD EVF because we will be outside so I'm pretty sure that means my SDI out (monitor out) is incapacitated because I have switched to HDMI. I was planning to record out to the PIX from the HD SDI A plug. We'll be shooting 1080 23.98P.

However the client just told me that their experience and a sound devices tech has told them they have to record out using the SDI out (monitor out) otherwise they will get some kind of interlace problems . Also they need to record out at PSF whereas the Small HD needs (as I recall ) the 59.94 signal.

So its kind of a double whammy.

What gives here? Isn't it possible to shoot SLOG to a PIX with an HDMI EVF? Does somebody have their information wron g?

Chris Medico · September 4th, 2012, 07:36 PM

You should be using SDI-A for the PIX and the HDMI out on the F3 for your monitor. You can have both enabled at the same time. That will turn off the MONITOR SDI port.

Chris Medico · September 4th, 2012, 07:39 PM

The video from the SDI-A out port will be PsF and the PIX will not have any problems with it. That is how I use mine.

Leonard Levy · September 4th, 2012, 10:20 PM

Thanks - I've asked this on 2 forums and everyone (as I expected all have agreed - use the A port) We just shot a test and the client is going to blow it up and look for aliasing or interlace problems. But I have further questions about this:

Chris, I have to set the HDMI out to 59.94 for my Small HD EVF and that seems to affect the A port also as it seems to be 59.94 ( see below)

Its a 2 camera shot and the other camera is recording from the A output (also using a Zacuto HDMI EVF at 59.94) onto a Ki-Pro and recording to 23.98P.

I can record the same way by setting the PIX to 23.98 or as was suggested on another forum by Ned Soltz- set the PIX to "same as Video input" In that case it records 59.94 .

Will we be screwed by having the 2 cameras record differently?

What are the consequences of recording 59.94 w/pulldown

Is there a problem with the PIX recording 23.98 from a 59.94 signal?

I'm pretty weak on these issues I confess. How does the deck change the signal from 59.94 to 23.98P?
Is there any difference between the proper settings for a Ki-Pro and a PIX?

Thanks folks. DVInfo.net to the rescue.

Chris Medico · September 5th, 2012, 05:34 AM

Setting the HDMI port to interlaced does not affect SDI-A or B on the F3. The main SDI ports follow the frame rate of the camera and do not change regardless to what you set the monitor ports to.

An easy test is to set the PIX to record "Same as source" the connect it to the F3. If you connect it to the main SDI ports you should see 23.97 PsF on the display of the PIX (assuming you are shooting 23.97). Then change the setting of the monitor ports and you will see that the display on the PIX doesn't change. It should still indicate 23.97 PsF.

Chris Medico · September 5th, 2012, 05:45 AM

Check out the manual at the link below. Start on page 31. Notice there that the main SDI ports are ALWAYS either true progressive or PsF. They are never interlaced. That is why you should be using the main SDI ports to record to the PIX. You can't get it wrong as long as you haven't set the PIX to do something odd. That is why on the PIX I always run it "Same as source" so I can see if everything is OK.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/assetDownloadController/PMW-F3_Supp_Manual.pdf?path=Asset%20Hierarchy$Professional$SEL-yf-generic-153708$SEL-yf-generic-153753SEL-asset-250125.pdf&id=StepID$SEL-asset-250125$original&dimension=original

Nate Weaver · September 5th, 2012, 11:33 AM

If the A port is outputting 59.94, then there's a really good chance the camera is either:

-In overcrank mode, and the camera slipped into 720p59.94 internally

-It's somehow in 720p59.94 mode via System menu

That A port, when the camera is any 1080p mode, is supposed to be either 29.97p or 23.98p. The A port doesn't really support much else.

Douglas Villalba · September 5th, 2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

If the A port is outputting 59.94, then there's a really good chance the camera is either:

-In overcrank mode, and the camera slipped into 720p59.94 internally

-It's somehow in 720p59.94 mode via System menu

That A port, when the camera is any 1080p mode, is supposed to be either 29.97p or 23.98p. The A port doesn't really support much else.

On the KPM even when you set the camera to 720p59.94 it records 1080 out of SDI A. You have to record out of SDI Out to record 720p 59.94 to the KPM.

Leonard Levy · September 5th, 2012, 10:01 PM

Thanks everyone. We recorded some tests and as i was second camera, I let the first camera team shoot and interpret the tests while i got some much needed shut-eye. In the AM they concluded you were all correct ( as I had planned from the beginning) and we recorded from the SDI A out with PIX sent to "same as input." I'll run my own tests later this week just for my own edification. I don't know where their AC (who was a bright competent guy) had the idea that you needed to record from SDI monitor out, though he swears it was from Sound Devices. Sometimes stories change in the retelling though. I know all the voices from here helped them take me seriously.

Mark Bolding · November 14th, 2012, 06:15 AM

Why would you want to record 24 psf to the pix? Is there an advantage over setting the pix to record 23.98?

Mark Kenfield · November 14th, 2012, 06:44 AM

As I understand it, a lot of cameras output their progressive signals in interlaced 'wrappers', so the camera feeds out a PSF to the recorder, and the PIX then conforms that to your actual desired recording medium.

Shooting in 25p, my camera spits out a PSF signal too. The 25p footage that comes out of the PIX is perfectly fine though.

September 4th, 2012, 07:29 PM	#1
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? I just arrived for a job tomorrow morning. My first job using Slog into a PIX 240 to record 422 Pro Res. I have a SmallHD EVF because we will be outside so I'm pretty sure that means my SDI out (monitor out) is incapacitated because I have switched to HDMI. I was planning to record out to the PIX from the HD SDI A plug. We'll be shooting 1080 23.98P. However the client just told me that their experience and a sound devices tech has told them they have to record out using the SDI out (monitor out) otherwise they will get some kind of interlace problems . Also they need to record out at PSF whereas the Small HD needs (as I recall ) the 59.94 signal. So its kind of a double whammy. What gives here? Isn't it possible to shoot SLOG to a PIX with an HDMI EVF? Does somebody have their information wron g?

September 4th, 2012, 07:36 PM	#2
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? You should be using SDI-A for the PIX and the HDMI out on the F3 for your monitor. You can have both enabled at the same time. That will turn off the MONITOR SDI port. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

September 4th, 2012, 07:39 PM	#3
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? The video from the SDI-A out port will be PsF and the PIX will not have any problems with it. That is how I use mine. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

September 4th, 2012, 10:20 PM	#4
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? Thanks - I've asked this on 2 forums and everyone (as I expected all have agreed - use the A port) We just shot a test and the client is going to blow it up and look for aliasing or interlace problems. But I have further questions about this: Chris, I have to set the HDMI out to 59.94 for my Small HD EVF and that seems to affect the A port also as it seems to be 59.94 ( see below) Its a 2 camera shot and the other camera is recording from the A output (also using a Zacuto HDMI EVF at 59.94) onto a Ki-Pro and recording to 23.98P. I can record the same way by setting the PIX to 23.98 or as was suggested on another forum by Ned Soltz- set the PIX to "same as Video input" In that case it records 59.94 . Will we be screwed by having the 2 cameras record differently? What are the consequences of recording 59.94 w/pulldown Is there a problem with the PIX recording 23.98 from a 59.94 signal? I'm pretty weak on these issues I confess. How does the deck change the signal from 59.94 to 23.98P? Is there any difference between the proper settings for a Ki-Pro and a PIX? Thanks folks. DVInfo.net to the rescue.

September 5th, 2012, 05:34 AM	#5
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? Setting the HDMI port to interlaced does not affect SDI-A or B on the F3. The main SDI ports follow the frame rate of the camera and do not change regardless to what you set the monitor ports to. An easy test is to set the PIX to record "Same as source" the connect it to the F3. If you connect it to the main SDI ports you should see 23.97 PsF on the display of the PIX (assuming you are shooting 23.97). Then change the setting of the monitor ports and you will see that the display on the PIX doesn't change. It should still indicate 23.97 PsF. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

September 5th, 2012, 05:45 AM	#6
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? Check out the manual at the link below. Start on page 31. Notice there that the main SDI ports are ALWAYS either true progressive or PsF. They are never interlaced. That is why you should be using the main SDI ports to record to the PIX. You can't get it wrong as long as you haven't set the PIX to do something odd. That is why on the PIX I always run it "Same as source" so I can see if everything is OK. http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/assetDownloadController/PMW-F3_Supp_Manual.pdf?path=Asset%20Hierarchy$Professional$SEL-yf-generic-153708$SEL-yf-generic-153753SEL-asset-250125.pdf&id=StepID$SEL-asset-250125$original&dimension=original __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

September 5th, 2012, 11:33 AM	#7
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? If the A port is outputting 59.94, then there's a really good chance the camera is either: -In overcrank mode, and the camera slipped into 720p59.94 internally -It's somehow in 720p59.94 mode via System menu That A port, when the camera is any 1080p mode, is supposed to be either 29.97p or 23.98p. The A port doesn't really support much else. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

September 5th, 2012, 10:01 PM	#9
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? Thanks everyone. We recorded some tests and as i was second camera, I let the first camera team shoot and interpret the tests while i got some much needed shut-eye. In the AM they concluded you were all correct ( as I had planned from the beginning) and we recorded from the SDI A out with PIX sent to "same as input." I'll run my own tests later this week just for my own edification. I don't know where their AC (who was a bright competent guy) had the idea that you needed to record from SDI monitor out, though he swears it was from Sound Devices. Sometimes stories change in the retelling though. I know all the voices from here helped them take me seriously.

November 14th, 2012, 06:15 AM	#10
Mark Bolding Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 109	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? Why would you want to record 24 psf to the pix? Is there an advantage over setting the pix to record 23.98?

November 14th, 2012, 06:44 AM	#11
Mark Kenfield Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 470	Re: emergency help - PIX 240 with SLog and Small HD HDMI problem? As I understand it, a lot of cameras output their progressive signals in interlaced 'wrappers', so the camera feeds out a PSF to the recorder, and the PIX then conforms that to your actual desired recording medium. Shooting in 25p, my camera spits out a PSF signal too. The 25p footage that comes out of the PIX is perfectly fine though.