F3 auto rebooting at DVinfo.net

Ron Wilk · August 24th, 2012, 11:21 AM

While this may turn out to be an elusive gremlin issue, I thought I would query other owner/operators for an opinion:
I was shooting the other day with the following setup: F3 with Firmware1.4, S-Log engaged (CBK-RGB), Switronix Ex L-96 battery powering the F3 and an Alphatron EVF, and one internal 32gig SxS card. No external recorder at the time. Suddenly, after roughly 5 minutes of on time in standby mode, the camera began shutting itself down and immediately rebooting. It went through this cycle several times and then stopped. I have not been able to reproduce it since.
Any thoughts?

Steve Cocklin · August 24th, 2012, 12:34 PM

The only thing I can think of is it might be a power issue. What is your low voltage setting at on the F3, are you running your other devices off of the same battery as the camera?

Ron Wilk · August 24th, 2012, 01:32 PM

That was my first thought as well.
The low voltage setting is whatever the factory default is. And, yes, I was running the F3 and my EVF from the same battery via d-tap. However, it was a fully charged battery and the F3's indicator read something in the range of 15 volts. Now, given that the d-tap connector for the Swit battery is not a click-in type of affair, it is possible that the connection was imperfect. But that notwithstanding, it is hard to fathom a power issue related to a fully charged battery... unless there is a problem with the battery. It is a new one and perhaps I should go back to using a slightly older version of the same battery just to see if it happens again ... these batteries do come with warrantees.

Jack Zhang · August 24th, 2012, 02:15 PM

It's amperage that is the key. For this kind of a setup, it will draw a ton of amps from the battery. For using both a EVF and the F3, safer to use a battery on the EVF and leave the Switronix to just run the F3. Do remember that the DC INs are different, so your adapter cable could be at fault as well, but most likely it's the overcurrent protection inside the battery kicking in. To use both a EVF and the F3 on the same battery, better to use V-lock or Anton Bauer as opposed to BP-U.

Ron Wilk · August 24th, 2012, 09:20 PM

Good points. However, the AB and or V mount batteries both require rails in re the F3, and that would not be practical for my application. I've not encountered problems with my original Swit L 96, so perhaps there's a problem with the new one.

Andrew Stone · August 25th, 2012, 04:14 PM

I am pretty sure Jack just hit on the problem.

I recall Alex Dolgin, who sells these batteries and KNOWS tons about batteries, state that there are protection circuits in these batts that will shut the battery's connection down when overloaded.

I think the P-Tap outlets are rated at 2 amps maximum at 12 to 14 volts that isn't a lot of wattage. The other power cable coming out of these units is probably rated for about the same or maybe it is 2 amps total draw.

Two amps at 14 volts is 28 watts. At 12 volts it is 24 watts.

Ron Wilk · August 25th, 2012, 04:35 PM

Sounds logical.
If I continue to experience the issue I will have to return to powering the EVF independently. Adding rods to my setup would make it unwieldy and therefore I am unable to use my AB Dionic 90's. The Swit seemed like the way to go, but if it isn't up to the task it's hardly worth the extra weight. That said, I've only encountered the shutdown with one of my two Swit L-96 batts. There's a storm heading this way—minimal, I hope—and I will set the cam on sticks with the aforementioned power combo and see what happens. Losing that kind of footage will not cause any hardship. After all, we've all seen palm trees blowing in the wind, along with all kinds of unsecured garbage.

Dave Sperling · August 26th, 2012, 03:22 PM

Andrew brings up a point that I had never thought about. Do the two power outputs of the battery share a single overload circuit, or does each one have its own.. I shot a feature powering both the F3 (w/ slog CBK-RGB 444 engaged) and convergent design's Gemini recorder simultaneously from the same EX-96 battery. The only power issue I had was when I tried to squeeze the end of a long take out of the battery when the 'Battery Low' indicator started flashing in the camera - and it died. After that I learned to respect the warning.
But - and this is my main point - I was powering the Gemini from the P-Tap connector on the battery while the camera was being powered with an adapter (from Nanoflash.net) that went from the battery's EX plug cable to a 4-pin XLR. As I recall I would get about 3 hours from an EX96 when powering both camera and recorder.
I'm now guessing that based on my lack of problems with the system, each power output must have its own overload protection.

Andrew Stone · August 26th, 2012, 04:23 PM

And don't forget that you are pulling more juice with your F3 when you activate the 3G/444 HD-SDI ports on the back of the camera. Not sure how much more is drawn but it is not insignificant.

August 24th, 2012, 11:21 AM	#1
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	F3 auto rebooting While this may turn out to be an elusive gremlin issue, I thought I would query other owner/operators for an opinion: I was shooting the other day with the following setup: F3 with Firmware1.4, S-Log engaged (CBK-RGB), Switronix Ex L-96 battery powering the F3 and an Alphatron EVF, and one internal 32gig SxS card. No external recorder at the time. Suddenly, after roughly 5 minutes of on time in standby mode, the camera began shutting itself down and immediately rebooting. It went through this cycle several times and then stopped. I have not been able to reproduce it since. Any thoughts?

August 24th, 2012, 12:34 PM	#2
Steve Cocklin Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Newburg, MD Posts: 45	Re: F3 auto rebooting The only thing I can think of is it might be a power issue. What is your low voltage setting at on the F3, are you running your other devices off of the same battery as the camera?

August 24th, 2012, 01:32 PM	#3
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	Re: F3 auto rebooting That was my first thought as well. The low voltage setting is whatever the factory default is. And, yes, I was running the F3 and my EVF from the same battery via d-tap. However, it was a fully charged battery and the F3's indicator read something in the range of 15 volts. Now, given that the d-tap connector for the Swit battery is not a click-in type of affair, it is possible that the connection was imperfect. But that notwithstanding, it is hard to fathom a power issue related to a fully charged battery... unless there is a problem with the battery. It is a new one and perhaps I should go back to using a slightly older version of the same battery just to see if it happens again ... these batteries do come with warrantees.

August 24th, 2012, 02:15 PM	#4
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: F3 auto rebooting It's amperage that is the key. For this kind of a setup, it will draw a ton of amps from the battery. For using both a EVF and the F3, safer to use a battery on the EVF and leave the Switronix to just run the F3. Do remember that the DC INs are different, so your adapter cable could be at fault as well, but most likely it's the overcurrent protection inside the battery kicking in. To use both a EVF and the F3 on the same battery, better to use V-lock or Anton Bauer as opposed to BP-U.

August 24th, 2012, 09:20 PM	#5
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	Re: F3 auto rebooting Good points. However, the AB and or V mount batteries both require rails in re the F3, and that would not be practical for my application. I've not encountered problems with my original Swit L 96, so perhaps there's a problem with the new one.

August 25th, 2012, 04:14 PM	#6
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Re: F3 auto rebooting I am pretty sure Jack just hit on the problem. I recall Alex Dolgin, who sells these batteries and KNOWS tons about batteries, state that there are protection circuits in these batts that will shut the battery's connection down when overloaded. I think the P-Tap outlets are rated at 2 amps maximum at 12 to 14 volts that isn't a lot of wattage. The other power cable coming out of these units is probably rated for about the same or maybe it is 2 amps total draw. Two amps at 14 volts is 28 watts. At 12 volts it is 24 watts.

August 25th, 2012, 04:35 PM	#7
Ron Wilk Major Player Join Date: May 2009 Location: Parkland Florida Posts: 407	Re: F3 auto rebooting Sounds logical. If I continue to experience the issue I will have to return to powering the EVF independently. Adding rods to my setup would make it unwieldy and therefore I am unable to use my AB Dionic 90's. The Swit seemed like the way to go, but if it isn't up to the task it's hardly worth the extra weight. That said, I've only encountered the shutdown with one of my two Swit L-96 batts. There's a storm heading this way—minimal, I hope—and I will set the cam on sticks with the aforementioned power combo and see what happens. Losing that kind of footage will not cause any hardship. After all, we've all seen palm trees blowing in the wind, along with all kinds of unsecured garbage.

August 26th, 2012, 03:22 PM	#8
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: F3 auto rebooting Andrew brings up a point that I had never thought about. Do the two power outputs of the battery share a single overload circuit, or does each one have its own.. I shot a feature powering both the F3 (w/ slog CBK-RGB 444 engaged) and convergent design's Gemini recorder simultaneously from the same EX-96 battery. The only power issue I had was when I tried to squeeze the end of a long take out of the battery when the 'Battery Low' indicator started flashing in the camera - and it died. After that I learned to respect the warning. But - and this is my main point - I was powering the Gemini from the P-Tap connector on the battery while the camera was being powered with an adapter (from Nanoflash.net) that went from the battery's EX plug cable to a 4-pin XLR. As I recall I would get about 3 hours from an EX96 when powering both camera and recorder. I'm now guessing that based on my lack of problems with the system, each power output must have its own overload protection.

August 26th, 2012, 04:23 PM	#9
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Re: F3 auto rebooting And don't forget that you are pulling more juice with your F3 when you activate the 3G/444 HD-SDI ports on the back of the camera. Not sure how much more is drawn but it is not insignificant.