S-log and outputs

[Mike Marriage]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

Well, they aren't exactly cashing in on selling external VF's because there's no good way to connect them, power them, and feed them a correct signal. If that was Sony's goal (I"m sure it was not) then they failed miserably.

Doug, I think you misunderstood my post, that's exactly what I meant. They should have at least provided a VF connector, that way Sony could have made money on VFs rather than the sales going to compromised 3rd party solutions. Of course, a decent VF included in the price (not fixed to the rear of the camera!) would be better still!

I wonder whether they'll release an EX3 style body next. Although that would be better IMO, it is far from the pinnacle of ergonomic design.

[Alister Chapman]

I too can confirm that there is a new 3rd party VF solution solution coming in the first quarter of this year that may be what everyone is looking for and won't cost the earth. That's about all I can say at the moment.

[Chris Medico]

Careful what you wish for regarding Sony bringing out a VF for the F3 (yea, I know the F3 doesn't have the connector for an ENG style VF). I bet it would cost almost as much as the camera if the other PRO color HD VFs are any indication.

I can only imagine how much of an uproar would be heard if Sony offered a proper VF @ $10k.

[Doug Jensen]

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I'd probably buy one at that price especially if it had connectors that look like they would be forward compatible with future cameras. After all, I've got a $12K VF on my F800 that I wouldn't give up for anything (fortunately I got a b-stock for 1/2 price).

[David C. Williams]

Not a secret any more...

NEW Alphatron TV Logic EVF Coming to NAB

[Ron Wilk]

NEW Alphatron TV Logic EVF Coming to NAB

An interesting prospect with higher resolution than the current crop. But I wonder why a distinction is made between "HD-SDI loop through" vs the stated HDMI in/out? Are they implying that the HD-SDI is a passive throughput that does not feed the EVF? If so, it wouldn't interest me in the least.

Addendum: Just spoke to the reseller in Boston who claimed that the EVF will take either an SDI or HDMI signal. No info was available as to what, if any, focusing and exposure assists will be included. Slated for availability in the "spring." But given the apparent industry standard in regards to release dates, that could equate to the 5th of whenever.

[Doug Jensen]

I'll be at Rule on the 18th to do a presentation on S-LOG, so I'll see if they have a demo of the EVF that I can compare to my Zacuto while I am there.

[Ron Wilk]

That would be great.
I was about to place a pre-order deposit, but given my disappointment with previously hyped equipment, I put on the brakes in anticipation of further information. That said, TV Logic, the producing manufacturer, does have a good reputation in re their various monitor offerings. Color me "hopeful."

[Mike Marriage]

Originally Posted by Chris Medico

Careful what you wish for regarding Sony bringing out a VF for the F3 (yea, I know the F3 doesn't have the connector for an ENG style VF). I bet it would cost almost as much as the camera if the other PRO color HD VFs are any indication.

I can only imagine how much of an uproar would be heard if Sony offered a proper VF @ $10k.

My preference for a new Sony camera would be that they supplied it with a VF like they do with the PMW320/350 (I would be happy with that model VF for most applications) but also give the option of adding their high end VFs for those who can afford them via a 2nd VF socket.

Leave the HDSDIs (and HDMIs) for external monitoring and recording.

[Paul Ream]

The F3 to me looks like it's always intended to be a very modular design. Many people are using external recorders and some very heavy PL glass with all sorts of different power options. In fact, there's almost an infinite number of different rigs out there and they all have different balance, setups etc, (even 3D). Doesn't that make it very difficult to incorporate a 'camcorder' style viewfinder? The ideal position will move all over the place depending on how the camera's going to be used.

[Alister Chapman]

I think that's a very good point Paul.

When I shot the Duran Duran concert I had my Cineroid Sdi EVF mounted towards the back of the camera as I was using a 40x zoom (via my B4 to F3 adapter) with remote zoom and focus controls on the pan bars. When I'm handheld I have the EVF mounted up front to the left of the lens, so the camera body sits on my shoulder. I think once the better 3rd party EVF's come out, along with better EVF mounts we will be much better off.

I agree though that a dedicated EVF connector would be nice.

[Mike Marriage]

I think that manufacturers haven't really nailed "modular" design or even what it means yet. If it is to be the future of pro camcorder design, it needs a lot of refining.

The VF is a critical component for almost all shooting (Steadicam, jib etc being exceptions) however the current designs such as the F3 and C300 seem to give it little consideration. Yes there are 3rd party workarounds but there should be more thought given to the original design.

[Charles Papert]

I think that all a modern camera needs to accommodate for viewfinders is a dedicated HD-SDI output (with independently selectable and configurable info overlays) and a power port. Mounting points along the top of the camera are finally becoming an understood requirement. The more specific the camera's physical and electronic connection to a viewfinder, the less modular it becomes and then third party manufacturers will have to provide different models for each camera.

Obviously Sony has a ton of experience making outboard viewfinders and it is interesting that they chose not to introduce a version of their existing designs as an option for the F3.

While the electronics and optics of third party viewfinders are coming along (I am fairly sure that 2012 will be the year that they "arrive"), it's just as important to have a solid mounting system that allows the operator to maneuver the VF in the appropriate fashion. This is most definitely not a Noga-style arm, which introduces the fantastically undesirable roll axis into the equation. Probably the closest version out there is the one in the Letus Master Cinema Series. As Alister points out, the ability to mount the VF towards the back of the camera is great for studio-style operation, which mimics the extended eyepiece position on film cameras. There are likely many on this site who have not experienced the advantages of the rear position coupled with an eyepiece leveler--for long shooting stints, it's a much more comfortable and efficient way to work (for run and gun, not great). Towards the end of my operating career I did come to prefer the 7" onboard for studio style operating over having my eye stuck in the eyepiece, but that may have been out of laziness more than anything else! Actually, it did allow me the ability to perform more difficult moves that required a lot of pan and boom without having to contort myself, and the years of Steadicam had attuned me to framing via monitor.

[Doug Jensen]

My dream camera would be called the PDW-F800PL

An F800 with it's shoulder-mount design, optical recording, professional viewfinder, slot-microphone receiver, four channels of audio, v-mount batteries, D-tap, sophisticated paint menus etc. . . .

. . . but with an F3 sensor, dual-link outputs, an easier to navigate menu system, and a PL lens mount.

That is that camera I want. I could get by with just one camera if Sony were to build it. But with the F65 being so inexpensive, and the tapeless SRW-9000PL already around, I think it will remain a dream.

[Charles Papert]

Doug, would not said dream camera truly be a one-size-fits-all if it could additionally accommodate 2/3" lenses with full resolution windowing? For those times where the weight and bulk of 35mm lenses isn't appropriate, such as run and gun doc style shooting? I'd think that would be quite the breakthrough.