FW 1.3 Can't come too soon (need outputs)

[Nate Weaver]

So a year after the F3 was announced, the promise of all it's farkles is finally coming to realization.

S-Log came during the summer. I got mine in Sept.

The lower-cost standalone recorders are finally out in the wild. I got mine 3 days ago.

So far I've been playing with S-Log and the Samurai without my HDMI EVF on the camera. As soon as I went to attach it though, I realized I was not going to be happy: S-Log disables simultaneous SDI/HDMI outputs. So I can have the EVF. Or I can have the Samurai. Or I can turn off S-Log and have both. GAHHHH.

Anyway, when 1.3 comes out, I can finally drive the Samurai from Port A, then it won't matter nearly as much...

Or I can sell the Zacuto finder and get a Cineroid SDI.

I'm not sure how the F3 can live as C camera on an F35 job without having these things set. Cameras need EVFs.

[Duke Marsh]

Does the Samurai not have a pass through from SDI to HDMI like the Nano or KPM?

[Nate Weaver]

No. Doesn't have an HDMI port.

They sell an adapter, but I'm not about to slap a hack on a hack, if you kow what I mean. Especially if the need for it goes away in 2 months

[Steve Kalle]

Or you can get AbelCine's VF upgrade where you can use REAL viewfinders. I used their setup last week and absolutely loved it. In contrast, I used the Zacuto EVF two months ago and didn't like its low rez screen at all.

[Doug Jensen]

No zebras though with Abel's solution. That is a deal breaker for me.
I am quite happy with the Zacuto EVF . . . as long as the HDMI cable stays in the socket!

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

Or you can get AbelCine's VF upgrade where you can use REAL viewfinders. I used their setup last week and absolutely loved it. In contrast, I used the Zacuto EVF two months ago and didn't like its low rez screen at all.

The Abel adapter isn't my cup of tea...I'm holding out hope that somebody can electrically adapt, say, a Red Bomb EVF off the camera, which would be about the same amount of money. That would be expensive, but worth it.

Incidentally, the Zacuto and the Cineroid wouldn't be THAT bad if the magnification on the diopter was less. Magnifying the image as large as they do is part of what's so wrong. It's as if they decided that if you magnify the image more, you're be able to focus better...which of course is not the case if it's so magnifies you can see the lines between the panel pixels.

One of these days I'll find a diopter that works better for that eyepiece.

[Bruce Schultz]

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

No. Doesn't have an HDMI port.

They sell an adapter, but I'm not about to slap a hack on a hack, if you kow what I mean.

Nate, I assume you are talking about this;

Atomos Connect Converters

It doesn't look too obtrusive and I'm sure it works fine for a VF output. A bit pricey at $349 USD though.

[Steve Kalle]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

No zebras though with Abel's solution. That is a deal breaker for me.
I am quite happy with the Zacuto EVF . . . as long as the HDMI cable stays in the socket!

Hi Doug.

The high-end B&W or color VF's from a pro ENG camera don't have Zebras? I thought AbelCine's solution allows the use of these high-end Viewfinders - at least the setup I used had a very high quality B&W Panasonic VF on it. I'm not familiar with using these VF's and ENG cameras; so, your explanation would help.

[Dennis Dillon]

Steve,
Not wanting to step on Doug here. The Able VF will not have Zebras due to its source. The Lum from the composite video out from the F3.
I spent yesterday in NY at NBC Network LIC Tech center, advising NBC Mgt and staff gents on their new F3's. They have made a major investment in this camera. To be used on their new show Rock Center.
I was brought in after the purchase and was surprised how well they packaged them.
One item was the Zacuto VF. After 3 hours of playing around, (Note: these DP's are long time experienced Hand Held Cameramen). I joined in as to see how it worked, as I have not committed to the Zacuto yet. Additional note I ordered the Able Unit the day of the announcement, and as of yesterday I had not received it, but it is due here on Monday, Will post after I had a chance to bend and bang it around on my 20A Sony B&W VF from my 800.
There was a universal let down on the Zacuto on two fronts. The first being as Nate has indicated, the image is too large for a VF that is 2 inches from your eye. I also own the same diopter for my 5D, so I concur with Nate on that.
Second was the config from the 15 Rail/Zacuto post/swivel set up. We all had issues when one would just shift ones self to let up on the pain. (The F3 as is was as heavy or heavier than my 800). What we are all use to is, tweaking the VF with a simple one hand adjustment up or down/side to side. Try that on the post rig and you will find yourself fumbling and there by losing your shot in non scripted moments.
I reached out to Mitch Grossman Able Cine Tech and asked him if he could get the new VF over to NBC, which he promptly placed one to them overnight for testing.
I too love Zebras, so I'm not sure on how it will go. I'll post and check in with NBC to see how it went.

Also waiting for 1.3.

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Dennis Dillon

Try that on the post rig and you...

Not sure what you mean about "post rig"? Is that some sort of belt & post support from waist? Or the EVF mount?

Suffice to say, Zacuto stuff is not the best thought out stuff. Which would be ok, except their prices are close to the products from Arri, Element Technica, Denz, etc whose products ARE thought out.

[Steve Kalle]

Thanks Dennis for the explanation.

About Zacuto - I quite like their gear aside from the EVF. I really like the Newsman rig and all the extra pieces I have. Every baseplate and shoulder rig my local AbelCine has received for the F3 has not suited me as well as my Zacuto rig. With that said, nothing I have used is comfortable for more than a couple minutes including my Zacuto rig.

[Dennis Dillon]

Nate,
Sorry for not being clear. The Zacuto post was attached to a single 15 mm Zacuto clamp rising up to a ZVF mount, which has limited rotation. A ball mount would have been better. For that matter Thierry's rig see http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-front-f3.html
Is a better method for the ZVF.

I just got word from one of the NBC DP's who stated that the Able VF is a huge hit. He indicated that they had little confidence with the ZVF and now are really excited about the Able unit.
Now Im excited about trying it out.
Thanks to Mitch Grossman for the response.

BTW
When asked about the lack of Zebras, he said they would rather have no zebras (Which they will check on their LCDs)
More importantly he indicated that they were able to nail focus much better with the Able VF even at wide T's.

[Steve Kalle]

Originally Posted by Dennis Dillon

Nate,
Sorry for not being clear. The Zacuto post was attached to a single 15 mm Zacuto clamp rising up to a ZVF mount, which has limited rotation. A ball mount would have been better. For that matter Thierry's rig see http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-front-f3.html
Is a better method for the ZVF.

I just got word from one of the NBC DP's who stated that the Able VF is a huge hit. He indicated that they had little confidence with the ZVF and now are really excited about the Able unit.
Now Im excited about trying it out.
Thanks to Mitch Grossman for the response.

BTW
When asked about the lack of Zebras, he said they would rather have no zebras (Which they will check on their LCDs)
More importantly he indicated that they were able to nail focus much better with the Able VF even at wide T's.

Oh good. I'm not the only one who really likes Abel's setup. At first, I was weary of it being only B&W (the VF) but it is so clear and crisp.

Dennis, do you know if they are using the prototype or the finished unit? I used the prototype and I believe the finished unit allows easier movement and adjustment of the VF's location.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Steve Kalle

The high-end B&W or color VF's from a pro ENG camera don't have Zebras?.

Steve,

I guess Dennis already sort of answered this, but just to clarify, the high-end Sony viewfinders don't generate zebras on their own -- they get it from the camera and that requires a proper viewfinder connection. The F3 lacks that connector. So, you can feed a video signal to the F3, but it won't have zebras. Like I said, that is a complete deal breaker for me because I cannot be constantly stopping to check the flip-out LCD to see my exposure. Nor can I carry around my Leader LV5330 waveform. Most of my shooting is not "cine style" where I have a lot of time to set up and refine the shot. I need to be able to adjust exposure on the fly, and that absolutely requires zebras.

FYI, I own a $12,000 Sony C35W viewfinder for my F800, and I have a $1,000 Zacuto on my F3. I can assure you that there isn't a huge difference between them. I am quite happy with the Zacuto and I can't understand why someone would complain about it. It works just fine, I can follow focus without any problem and I shoot everything between T2 to T3, usually with 75mm, 95mm, and 300mm lenses. Plus the Zacuto has zebras for exposure. I don't find magnification to be an issue, and you can add or remove spacers to change the distance to your eye.

I'm not saying the Abel adapter isn't a good product, I'm just saying it would be a total waste of money for me and still would not provide the features (zebra, a color picture, expanded focus, self-powered from a battery) of the Zacuto.

I'm just playing devil's advocate for people who are looking at viewfinder alternatives. Sometimes spending less gets you more.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Dennis Dillon

Second was the config from the 15 Rail/Zacuto post/swivel set up. We all had issues when one would just shift ones self to let up on the pain. (The F3 as is was as heavy or heavier than my 800). What we are all use to is, tweaking the VF with a simple one hand adjustment up or down/side to side. Try that on the post rig and you will find yourself fumbling and there by losing your shot in non scripted moments.

Dennis, I'm not sure what point you are making here, but I have a Pearstone arm for my Zacuto EVF and I am able to keep it tight enough to hold position -- but loose enough I can grab the viewfinder and change the position quickly without loosening any knobs. Works almost like a real viewfinder for me. My main complaint is the HDMI cable tends to come loose and lose contact too easily. I guess I need to find a solution to keep the HDMI connector in place on the VF.

I also added the Berkey plate to my F3 to give me more mounting options. It has been well worth the money.