Schneider Cine Xenar, CP2 or Cooke Panchro Set for F3?

[Steve Kalle]

Hello everyone.

I will be renting an F3 + S-Log upgrade soon and I need to rent a set of lenses to go with it. The place I will be renting from has the aforementioned lens sets. The Cooke and Schneider come only as a set but they don't have the entire PL set of CP2's so they come individually. (if it matters, the prices for 4 days are $610-(Xenar), $735-(Cooke), $564-(CP2) and $266-(Zeiss-Nikon)

The Cooke includes: 25, 32, 50, 75, 100. (all T2.8)

The Schneider includes: 25, 35, 50, 75, 95. (T2.0 to 2.2)

The CP2 includes: 21, 35, 50, 85. (3 are T2.1 and a T2.9)

Possibly, a 4th and much cheaper option would be a set of cine converted Nikon Zeiss with Red Rock focus gears. The budget allows for the high end glass but I might be able to keep any money saved (appx $25k for production for each spot - don't know what is set aside for post yet).

Which would you use and why?

Any thoughts, suggestions or things to lookout for are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Brian Drysdale]

I'd have a look at the images and see which best suits your project. The Schneider look closer to the Cookes, which tend to be warmer than the Zeiss.

The difference with the modified stills lenses will be the focus scale and you'll have to consider the importance of the 1st AC having a larger scale on the cine lenses, with less chance of blown takes. It really depends on if you're doing a lot of precise focus pulling, the time costs of any retakes and if you need to set up the focus marks by eye.

[Neal Norton]

Hi Steve:

The prices you have listed for each lens set (except maybe the Nikon/zeiss) are pretty high.

I think if you look around a little you should be able to find a nice 6 lens set of Ultraprimes for 500 to 600 dollars per day. That would be my choice with that budget.

Neal

[Steve Kalle]

Hi Neal,

The prices listed are for a total of 4 days so the entire Cooke Panchro set comes out to be $184 per day ($152/day Xenar; $141/day CP2).

We plan on receiving everything by UPS on a Monday afternoon and shoot both spots on Tuesday thru Thursday or even into Friday and then drop everything off at UPS Friday night.

PS 5 years ago, we would have been neighbors as I used to live in Brandon plus St Pete before that and then Bradenton after Brandon. I miss FL quite a lot.

[Neal Norton]

Oh Boy! I really missed the mention of 4 days! Your prices look great now.

I haven't used the xenar lenses but at that rate it looks like a pretty nice option.

Neal

[Henry Epstein]

It looks like you are going thru LensRental.com

Zeiss Compact Primes CP.2 PL Mounts are a good option... lightweight, nice contrast, very sharp and color match...

Maybe not with the warm and creamy look of the Pancros... but if you are going with S-Log you'll have plenty space for color grade and match.

If your budget allows as you say, I will also consider a wide angle lens which is usually needed for TV commercials...

They have the Zeiss LWZ.2 15.5-45mm T2.6 which is very nice zoom and lightweight too.

Also add the 85mm T2.1 and/or the 100mm T2.1 Macro for pack shots...

T2.1, T2.6 or T2.8 on the F3 @800ISO is OK. With S-Log you will be @1600ISO.

If you go with the primes option, include the 28mm T2.1... fantastic lens.

Don't forget to add ND and ND Grads filters sets.

Add insurance too for the lens set.

[Steve Kalle]

Originally Posted by Henry Epstein

It looks like you are going thru LensRental.com

Zeiss Compact Primes CP.2 PL Mounts are a good option... lightweight, nice contrast, very sharp and color match...

Maybe not with the warm and creamy look of the Pancros... but if you are going with S-Log you'll have plenty space for color grade and match.

If your budget allows as you say, I will also consider a wide angle lens which is usually needed for TV commercials...

They have the Zeiss LWZ.2 15.5-45mm T2.6 which is very nice zoom and lightweight too.

Also add the 85mm T2.1 and/or the 100mm T2.1 Macro for pack shots...

T2.1, T2.6 or T2.8 on the F3 @800ISO is OK. With S-Log you will be @1600ISO.

If you go with the primes option, include the 28mm T2.1... fantastic lens.

Don't forget to add ND and ND Grads filters sets.

Add insurance too for the lens set.

You are good. I do almost everything through lensrentals.com from photography to video equipment. I didn't mention their name because I can go a bit overboard talking about how great they have been, thus, causing my post to be removed.

And yes, I will be adding their insurance to the lenses and a few other things - that is a very good idea.

I looked at the LWZ2 but I don't think my Sachtler FSB 8 would be up to the task when adding in my Zacuto Newsman baseplate rig with v-mount battery, either a 7" Marshall SDI monitor or Zacuto Z-Finder and RedRock Mattebox and FollowFocus and also add the Aja KiPro Mini to the list.

Actually, I just checked and it weighs only 4.4 lbs. That is amazing. One option would be to get the LWZ.2 and the 85mm CP2.

[Henry Epstein]

For an extra $112.50 you can add the Manfrotto 526 Kit and you will be covered with up to 35lbs payload.

I live in Ecuador, South America and have not deal so far with LensRentals.com but they have wonderful prices and the best references from a very good friend of us living in Nashville.

Best good luck in your shooting.

Hope you can post some pics afterwards.

[Andrew Stone]

A couple of notes about the Xenar lenses. Haven't used them but I have been tracking comments about them...

Some of the Xenars telescope which becomes an issue with a mattebox, second and probably less important is the position of the iris and focus ring is reversed. Aside from that I have heard nothing but good reports about these lenses.

I like what the Zeiss lens coatings do to the skin tones and a couple of their wide angle lenses are very good at their price point. Henry brings up a lot of good things and suggestions, in my view.

You have a tricky decision to make Steve as some of the sets have wide lenses and other go in tighter but lack a true wide. What is more important going wide or going longer? I think that is where the crux of the decision is.

[Steve Kalle]

Originally Posted by Henry Epstein

For an extra $112.50 you can add the Manfrotto 526 Kit and you will be covered with up to 35lbs payload.

I live in Ecuador, South America and have not deal so far with LensRentals.com but they have wonderful prices and the best references from a very good friend of us living in Nashville.

Best good luck in your shooting.

Hope you can post some pics afterwards.

Hi Henry,

Thank you for the advice so far.

I have had several bad experiences with Manfrotto heads and tripods; so, I don't view their tripods as high quality. Before I added an EX3 and FSB 8 with CF legs to my kit which included an EX1 and FSB 6, I rented an EX1R and the best Manfrotto tripod lensrentals carried at the time. I sent back the first Manfrotto due to a pop in the head when panning. The 2nd tripod they sent to me did the exact same thing. I then went to my local Abel Cine to borrow one of their Manfrotto tripods and it had the exact same pop although it was a slightly more expensive model. The legs on all 3 sets were not stable (all had mid-level spreaders) as well. Since that experience, I refuse to use any Manfrotto tripod or head.

However, I have now had my 3rd Sachtler tripod break on me, and I thought these guys were supposed to be one of the best. The entry level eng tripod that comes with my FSB 6 had a leg pop out late last year, which is why I decided to get the Carbon Fiber legs with my FSB 8. Well, about 2 months ago, one of the CF legs becomes loose. With my EX3, Zacuto shoulder rig & v-mount battery and SolaENG 3 light on the tripod, I could apply a small amount of down force and the bad leg would start to slide up. So, I went to Abel Cine to have them get it fixed and they lent me their Sachtler tripod which is the same as the one with my FSB 6. About an hour ago, I was setting up the tripod. While loosening one of the legs and letting it slide out, it completely fell off. I just can't seem to catch a break.

[Henry Epstein]

What can I say, Steve...

In the last 23 years in this business I've own Vinten, Miller, Manfrotto, Cartoni and now a Sachtler SB18 Head with CF legs... been the last one, the best.

Manfrotto and Sachtler are now Vitec Groups's and their tripod systems are assembled out of Italy or Germany... May that be the cause? Who knows... Even though, my experience with light Manfrottos (up to 13-16lbs) has been a very good one so far. That was why I suggested that 526 as the best option available from LR.

But if you can get a better one for this job don't think it twice. If you are in Chicago, AbelCine might have the Sachtler Video18II available for rental.

I totally agree with Andrew's comments about these Cine Xenars... but I will not consider them as an option and will not elaborate more on this subject... Ask you contact at AbelCine what they think about them. For some reason they do not carry these prime lenses anymore in their stock.

[Doug Jensen]

So, what's wrong with the Cine-Xenars? I have a full set of them, plus 5 CP lenses, and I prefer the Xenars. They are great! Yes, I have to adjust how I use my FF and matte boxe, but it,s not big deal. They look great and are the easiest to use of all my lenses.

Also, if you want a great tripod, nothing compares to O'Connor. It's an investment that will pay you back for 10-15 years or more.

[Steve Kalle]

Hi Doug,

What filter size are the Xenars(found it, 102mm) and what mattebox do you use with them?

I can rent the Arri clip-on MB that is designed to fit on the CP2's without rod support. Or I can rent the RedRock MB which includes a swing-away and 3 filters plus rod support. I am considering the LWZ.2 plus the 85mm CP.2 and 100mm CP.2 (if they get it in stock in time).

On a side note, does anyone know whether the Nikon Zeiss lenses change focal length when adjusting focus? (I can't think of the term for this)

[Henry Epstein]

Steve,
The Zeiss ZFs (nikon mount primes) are a very solid option for you too if you get de 28mm. Our set includes 21-28-35-50-85 and none of them expands or get bigger when focusing... We use them a lot with our 5D2 and Panasonic HPX370+Letus Ultimate. Wonderful glass without the mechanics of the CP.2's

Doug,
With all due respect to your comments...( by the way, I love your videos, specially Mastering the Sony PMW-F3... WONDERFUL Tutorial) I know you have, use and love these Xenars... but I have not read too many good reviews about them so far... There are some conflicting opinions at other forums about them.

[Henry Epstein]

Just read Schneider has brought a new set at NAB 2011... all-new mechanics.

The Cine-Xenar MKII... "New, Fresh and Different.."

https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecom....aspx?CID=1722

https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs...Cine-Xenar.pdf