S-log workflow for FCP at DVinfo.net

Ed David · June 6th, 2011, 06:20 PM

do you guys know of how to get the footage into FCP? Or will it have to go into After Effects first thru the "Film Light" program? Thanks!

Ed David · June 6th, 2011, 06:30 PM

Well looks like Baselight for FCP will be the best way - coming in Fall 2011. Under $1000. Sorry answered my own question. But I guess before that comes out - what is the alternative?

Nate Weaver · June 6th, 2011, 07:52 PM

I just emailed this guy:

Final Cut Pro LUT plugins

He made a free one for Alexa Log-C, and then later started charging a little for it. My money is it would not take him long to make one, as the harder work was already done with the Alexa plugin.

Andrew Stone · June 6th, 2011, 07:54 PM

I would wait a few weeks until Final Cut Pro X is released. It appeared that a lot of Apple Color was rolled into the application. Won't know until it comes out which is supposed to be in June. In other words any day now.

You will also want to see what control surfaces other than the AVID work with this grading system. There is a the WAVE and the Euphonix board that are affordable.

Nate Weaver · June 6th, 2011, 08:03 PM

A side note:

I shot some S-Log without a LUT to the SxS cards on a demo camera at Cinegear last Friday.

First is a grab of what it looks like out of the camera by itself. Second is a "non-correct" correction using the FCP 3-way corrector.

Somebody will argue that the correction is not exact, but I'm not sure what the point of an "exact" correction is, as the footage is likely going to have a real color pass using another method later anyway.

I suppose somebody will want a correct S-Log LUT applied in the timeline so they can go directly to broadcast without color-correction work, but at that point I have to ask, why did you shoot S-Log then in the first place? S-Log is for color work with good tools. Anything else should be an offline.

Aaron Newsome · June 6th, 2011, 11:13 PM

There is nothing special about S-log footage that would preclude you from using the current FCP/Color workflow. S-log doesn't necessarily need to be treated any differently than any footage that needs to be edited and then graded.

I've graded plenty of 4:4:4 FilmStream (very similar to S-log) in Apple Color. There is nothing special about it.

The FilmStream footage that I've had other color houses grade, didn't do anything special either. They put the footage into their DaVinci or whatever and just graded it. Looks great.

Andrew Stone · June 6th, 2011, 11:26 PM

I agree with both of you. I will still be using Color (and soon Resolve) when working with S-log material.

Ed, however, was looking for a solution that doesn't take him out of FCP but has the control of grading solutions like Color & Resolve.

Aaron Newsome · June 7th, 2011, 01:26 AM

I understand Andrew, but if he's got FCP, chances are he has Color (and a workable solution on his computer already). Clunky as the roundtrip may be, Color is indeed a workable solution for even moderately complex work. Multiple roundtrips and conforms can get a little unwieldy but as long as you make sure your edit is locked before you start to grade, it can work nicely.

Although this Baselight plugin sounds promising, I think that the goal of trying to stay in FCP start to finish might be a little aggressive. I can't imagine how having the full functionality of a Baselight, Resolve or DaVinci stuffed into a plugin will work.

I'm no expert colorist by any means but I feel more at ease when using a full blown color grading app. I'll be very curious to see what this Baselight plugin is capable of.

I guess the biggest downside to Color for me is that it only supports a handful of media types and doesn't use Quicktime. I frequently shoot in Cineform 4:4:4, which works fine in FCP of course but Color can't read Cineform at all.

Andrew Stone · June 7th, 2011, 02:21 PM

Aaron,

This may be a thread derail but maybe not...

I have been curious about the Cineform codec. I hear nothing but praise about it as a terrific editor's codec but know little about getting into it. From what I can tell if you are using XDCAM acquistion you should be purchasing the $299 version of the codec. Think it's simply called "neo" (as opposed to neo3D or neoscene). Is this pretty much all you need to use Cineform in either FCP or whatever NLE one uses?

It appears from the the Cineform site that Cineform plays nicely with Baselight.

And yes I agree that roundtripping from Color and back is not that big of a deal and that is what I presently do although I am mighty tempted to move over to Resolve or at the very least pickup a WAVE controller board so using Color isn't such a pain. I am REALLY tired of Color's non-standard keyboard and mouse gestures. If I was in it all day it wouldn't be a big deal but I am not.

I used Resolve at the Blackmagic booth at NAB with a Euphonix controller (it was running a beta of the new Resolve). It was an absolute pleasure to use. It was one of the biggest "a-ha" moments that I had at the convention. I am pretty sold though on Tangent Design's "WAVE" controller after reading reviews from people that spend a lot of time grading. Both the Euphonix controller and the WAVE did get almost equal marks as an affordable but professional grader's controller.

Aaron Newsome · June 7th, 2011, 06:04 PM

Hi Andrew. Regarding Cineform codec, I can't say enough good things about it. The metadata features are absolutely not matched by any other codec out there. The ability to do "First Light" type corrections all in metadata (without changing the captured footage) and instantly see them in real time in ANY app is priceless. Yes, basic color corrections and other metadata changes all on the fly without altering the original footage.

You can also use the Cineform metadata to instantly display overlay of timecode, waveforms or all kinds of neat metadata. Any app will instantly show overlaid waveforms, timecode or whatever other features you choose to display.

I even take this a step further and Dropbox syncs my Cineform metadata to all my systems instantaneously. If I modify metadata for a file, it instantly is available in every NLE on every system I use.

The Cineform apps that you get when you purchase the codec are very useful too. Allows you to do re-wraps and all kinds of transcoding.

I think all you need is the Neo App. It's been a while since I purchased it.

June 6th, 2011, 06:20 PM	#1
Ed David Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 119	S-log workflow for FCP do you guys know of how to get the footage into FCP? Or will it have to go into After Effects first thru the "Film Light" program? Thanks! __________________ ____ www.kittyguerrilla.com

June 6th, 2011, 06:30 PM	#2
Ed David Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 119	Re: S-log workflow for FCP Well looks like Baselight for FCP will be the best way - coming in Fall 2011. Under $1000. Sorry answered my own question. But I guess before that comes out - what is the alternative? __________________ ____ www.kittyguerrilla.com

June 6th, 2011, 07:52 PM	#3
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Re: S-log workflow for FCP I just emailed this guy: Final Cut Pro LUT plugins He made a free one for Alexa Log-C, and then later started charging a little for it. My money is it would not take him long to make one, as the harder work was already done with the Alexa plugin. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

June 6th, 2011, 07:54 PM	#4
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Re: S-log workflow for FCP I would wait a few weeks until Final Cut Pro X is released. It appeared that a lot of Apple Color was rolled into the application. Won't know until it comes out which is supposed to be in June. In other words any day now. You will also want to see what control surfaces other than the AVID work with this grading system. There is a the WAVE and the Euphonix board that are affordable.

June 6th, 2011, 08:03 PM	#5
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Re: S-log workflow for FCP A side note: I shot some S-Log without a LUT to the SxS cards on a demo camera at Cinegear last Friday. First is a grab of what it looks like out of the camera by itself. Second is a "non-correct" correction using the FCP 3-way corrector. Somebody will argue that the correction is not exact, but I'm not sure what the point of an "exact" correction is, as the footage is likely going to have a real color pass using another method later anyway. I suppose somebody will want a correct S-Log LUT applied in the timeline so they can go directly to broadcast without color-correction work, but at that point I have to ask, why did you shoot S-Log then in the first place? S-Log is for color work with good tools. Anything else should be an offline. Attached Thumbnails __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

June 6th, 2011, 11:13 PM	#6
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Re: S-log workflow for FCP There is nothing special about S-log footage that would preclude you from using the current FCP/Color workflow. S-log doesn't necessarily need to be treated any differently than any footage that needs to be edited and then graded. I've graded plenty of 4:4:4 FilmStream (very similar to S-log) in Apple Color. There is nothing special about it. The FilmStream footage that I've had other color houses grade, didn't do anything special either. They put the footage into their DaVinci or whatever and just graded it. Looks great.

June 6th, 2011, 11:26 PM	#7
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Re: S-log workflow for FCP I agree with both of you. I will still be using Color (and soon Resolve) when working with S-log material. Ed, however, was looking for a solution that doesn't take him out of FCP but has the control of grading solutions like Color & Resolve.

June 7th, 2011, 01:26 AM	#8
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Re: S-log workflow for FCP I understand Andrew, but if he's got FCP, chances are he has Color (and a workable solution on his computer already). Clunky as the roundtrip may be, Color is indeed a workable solution for even moderately complex work. Multiple roundtrips and conforms can get a little unwieldy but as long as you make sure your edit is locked before you start to grade, it can work nicely. Although this Baselight plugin sounds promising, I think that the goal of trying to stay in FCP start to finish might be a little aggressive. I can't imagine how having the full functionality of a Baselight, Resolve or DaVinci stuffed into a plugin will work. I'm no expert colorist by any means but I feel more at ease when using a full blown color grading app. I'll be very curious to see what this Baselight plugin is capable of. I guess the biggest downside to Color for me is that it only supports a handful of media types and doesn't use Quicktime. I frequently shoot in Cineform 4:4:4, which works fine in FCP of course but Color can't read Cineform at all.

June 7th, 2011, 02:21 PM	#9
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Re: S-log workflow for FCP Aaron, This may be a thread derail but maybe not... I have been curious about the Cineform codec. I hear nothing but praise about it as a terrific editor's codec but know little about getting into it. From what I can tell if you are using XDCAM acquistion you should be purchasing the $299 version of the codec. Think it's simply called "neo" (as opposed to neo3D or neoscene). Is this pretty much all you need to use Cineform in either FCP or whatever NLE one uses? It appears from the the Cineform site that Cineform plays nicely with Baselight. And yes I agree that roundtripping from Color and back is not that big of a deal and that is what I presently do although I am mighty tempted to move over to Resolve or at the very least pickup a WAVE controller board so using Color isn't such a pain. I am REALLY tired of Color's non-standard keyboard and mouse gestures. If I was in it all day it wouldn't be a big deal but I am not. I used Resolve at the Blackmagic booth at NAB with a Euphonix controller (it was running a beta of the new Resolve). It was an absolute pleasure to use. It was one of the biggest "a-ha" moments that I had at the convention. I am pretty sold though on Tangent Design's "WAVE" controller after reading reviews from people that spend a lot of time grading. Both the Euphonix controller and the WAVE did get almost equal marks as an affordable but professional grader's controller.

June 7th, 2011, 06:04 PM	#10
Aaron Newsome Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rancho Santa Margarita Posts: 590	Re: S-log workflow for FCP Hi Andrew. Regarding Cineform codec, I can't say enough good things about it. The metadata features are absolutely not matched by any other codec out there. The ability to do "First Light" type corrections all in metadata (without changing the captured footage) and instantly see them in real time in ANY app is priceless. Yes, basic color corrections and other metadata changes all on the fly without altering the original footage. You can also use the Cineform metadata to instantly display overlay of timecode, waveforms or all kinds of neat metadata. Any app will instantly show overlaid waveforms, timecode or whatever other features you choose to display. I even take this a step further and Dropbox syncs my Cineform metadata to all my systems instantaneously. If I modify metadata for a file, it instantly is available in every NLE on every system I use. The Cineform apps that you get when you purchase the codec are very useful too. Allows you to do re-wraps and all kinds of transcoding. I think all you need is the Neo App. It's been a while since I purchased it.