F3 versus Panna HPX-2100 shootout at DVinfo.net

Ola Christoffersson · March 28th, 2011, 03:36 PM

I did a side by side shootout between the F3 and a big Panasonic 2/3"-HD cam (HPX-2100) a couple of days ago. The results were very interesting!

If you are interested I've posted some images and an article here: http://kamrat.tv/

Daniel Epstein · March 28th, 2011, 04:10 PM

Ola,
Tests are interesting but not the same as real world shooting.Your results are not very surprising given the parameters you used. Frankly I find the detail off setting the most questionable on these tests. Low is a lot different than off. I would have tried to match the detail on a chart to see if there is some setting both cameras respond well at. If the Panasonic doesn't have a cinegamma setting then you probably should not use one on the Sony for comparison, If you want to see what it does then shoot on the Sony using both. As for the grading and other issues with Codecs did you equalize them somehow. Did you compare the two cameras with motion shots as well. How about under Flash or strobe lighting?
While the F3 has some advantages in the shots you chose you didn't really tell us everything about each shot to understand what we are looking at as well as how you would deal with the production using each camera. Try shooting with the F3 handheld as shipped compared to the 2100 as shipped and you might find the footage gives you a completely different answer as to which is better than a locked off tripod shot. If all you wanted to do was compare DOF for each camera you would find the F3 winning everytime.

Ola Christoffersson · March 29th, 2011, 01:22 AM

Daniel - all of your objections are relevant! Thats why I'm clearly stating that it is not a fair test. I do not claim that it is in any way scientific or complete. It is what it is. That is also why I am putting all cards on the table so that everyone can judge for them selves knowing the weaknesses of the test.
However, weighing in all the facts that you state I am still very surprised at the results. The noise levels of the Panasonic are way higher than the F3 and there is no way electronic sharpening could bring back the detail into the shots that the F3 has.

I was not expecting these results and if I could I'd go back and redo the test. Of course the F3 should be set to normal gamma and detail off as well. Even though -17 is very close to detail off.

Leonard Levy · March 29th, 2011, 01:48 AM

If you get to repeat it I wouldn't put the F3 to normal detail but put both cameras at what users consider typical. F3 - 17 detail, but the Panny shouldn't be off. However, you did still learn stuff that's surprising.

Nate Weaver · March 29th, 2011, 01:59 AM

Every Panasonic I've ever tried is noisier than it's competition...it's been that way for years.

Long time ago I was involved in a couple few camera shootouts for magazines, etc and it was always the same.

Same goes for their stills cameras, if you pay close attention to the digital photography sites. They just have a higher tolerance for noise.

March 28th, 2011, 03:36 PM	#1
Ola Christoffersson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 462	F3 versus Panna HPX-2100 shootout I did a side by side shootout between the F3 and a big Panasonic 2/3"-HD cam (HPX-2100) a couple of days ago. The results were very interesting! If you are interested I've posted some images and an article here: http://kamrat.tv/ __________________ Ola Christoffersson, Kamrat produktion, Stockholm - Sweden www.kamrat.tv

March 28th, 2011, 04:10 PM	#2
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Re: F3 versus Panna HPX-2100 shootout Ola, Tests are interesting but not the same as real world shooting.Your results are not very surprising given the parameters you used. Frankly I find the detail off setting the most questionable on these tests. Low is a lot different than off. I would have tried to match the detail on a chart to see if there is some setting both cameras respond well at. If the Panasonic doesn't have a cinegamma setting then you probably should not use one on the Sony for comparison, If you want to see what it does then shoot on the Sony using both. As for the grading and other issues with Codecs did you equalize them somehow. Did you compare the two cameras with motion shots as well. How about under Flash or strobe lighting? While the F3 has some advantages in the shots you chose you didn't really tell us everything about each shot to understand what we are looking at as well as how you would deal with the production using each camera. Try shooting with the F3 handheld as shipped compared to the 2100 as shipped and you might find the footage gives you a completely different answer as to which is better than a locked off tripod shot. If all you wanted to do was compare DOF for each camera you would find the F3 winning everytime.

March 29th, 2011, 01:22 AM	#3
Ola Christoffersson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 462	Re: F3 versus Panna HPX-2100 shootout Daniel - all of your objections are relevant! Thats why I'm clearly stating that it is not a fair test. I do not claim that it is in any way scientific or complete. It is what it is. That is also why I am putting all cards on the table so that everyone can judge for them selves knowing the weaknesses of the test. However, weighing in all the facts that you state I am still very surprised at the results. The noise levels of the Panasonic are way higher than the F3 and there is no way electronic sharpening could bring back the detail into the shots that the F3 has. I was not expecting these results and if I could I'd go back and redo the test. Of course the F3 should be set to normal gamma and detail off as well. Even though -17 is very close to detail off. __________________ Ola Christoffersson, Kamrat produktion, Stockholm - Sweden www.kamrat.tv

March 29th, 2011, 01:48 AM	#4
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Re: F3 versus Panna HPX-2100 shootout If you get to repeat it I wouldn't put the F3 to normal detail but put both cameras at what users consider typical. F3 - 17 detail, but the Panny shouldn't be off. However, you did still learn stuff that's surprising.

March 29th, 2011, 01:59 AM	#5
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Re: F3 versus Panna HPX-2100 shootout Every Panasonic I've ever tried is noisier than it's competition...it's been that way for years. Long time ago I was involved in a couple few camera shootouts for magazines, etc and it was always the same. Same goes for their stills cameras, if you pay close attention to the digital photography sites. They just have a higher tolerance for noise. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net Last edited by Nate Weaver; March 29th, 2011 at 04:33 AM.