F3 SDI/Monitor/HD-SDi 8-bit vs. 10-bit

[Philipp Eierund]

Hey guys,

I've got a few questions in regards to the F3's SDI ports. We've got two HD SDI (A & B), one SDI, as well as one Monitor SDI port on the F3. All of them are capable of outputting HD (at least that's what I understand).

But do they all output 10-Bit 422? Or are some of them limited to 8-Bit 420? I am currently running an AJA Ki Pro Mini on the SDI out and am not getting much better results when color correcting the footage compared to the internal 420 coded recorded on an SxS. The footage seems to fall appart around the same point. This makes me wonder if I'm truly recording 10-Bit.

I tried connecting the Aja to the HD-SDI (A) port, however, I'm not even getting a signal on those. Are they not enabled yet? I'm recording @ 23.976.

I understand that 444 will be enabled via Dual-SDI (A & B) in April. Until then, which SDI port is best used for recording? Which one for monitoring? Are there any differences between HD-SDI (A or B), SDI, and Monitor?

Any thoughts/advise on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Philipp


EDIT:
This (from Sony PMW-F3) confused me even more:

"The PMW-F3 comesequipped with a wide rangeof interfaces optimized for avariety of operational needs,broad interoperability, andflexible workflow. These include an HD-SDI output and, in E-to-E mode, an uncompressed 4:2:2 10-bitsignal can be output from the connector."

What is "E-to-E" mode?

[Nate Weaver]

"E-to-E" mode is old school Sony-speak for electronic pass through. In other words, on a camera, when the camera is outputting a live image, as opposed to being in tape playback mode.

[Andrew Stone]

Philip,

Apparently there is a way to use the dual link HD-SDI ports on the camera without the software upgrade. The channels right now are half of a 3G signal, so 1.5G data rate per port. Someone did report being able to use it with some menu configuration but to eliminate issues you should use the standard HD-SDI port.

The AJA Ki Pro Mini has to be configured via the the ethernet port using their web app on a computer or laptop. Make sure you have the framerate and PSF setting (if applicable) properly set for the frame rate you have chosen in camera.

If you are not completely sure you really should be posting up in the AJA Ki Pro Mini forum thread on DVinfo that can be found in the Ki Pro forum. Jon Thorn from AJA can address your questions with the authority and knowledge you need.

Here is the AJA Ki Pro Mini thread mentioned above:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/aja-io-k...ini-kipro.html

[Aaron Newsome]

If your F3 does not have the firmware upgrade, use the SDI port. It is indeed 10bit 4:2:2. You can use the dual link SDI to record 1080/60p if you like. Not with your Aja though. That won't do it.

[Philipp Eierund]

Great, thank you guys. Just wanted to confirm that the standard SDI out is indeed 422. How about that monitor out? According to the Sony manual it's an HD-Y port. Unfortunately, I don't deem to be able to find any info on HD-Y either. :/

[Nate Weaver]

HD-Y means the Y part of an analog component trio.

So you plug that into the "Y" jack of a monitor that can accept an analog component HD signal, and you'll get an HD picture in black and white.

[Doug Jensen]

I have been able to connect the HD-Y output of the F3 into my F800, and then view the F3 picture in my F800's viewfinder when I press the LENS RETURN button. Great for checking framing on a two-camera shoot.

[Sebastien Thomas]

So, if I understand, with the basic F3 (without upgrade) :

- you can't use both HD SDI monitor AND HDMI at the same time
- you can't use the dual (A-B) HD-SDI outputs as one or two single HD-SDI plugs
- you can't use the dual (A-B) HD-SDI output in 3G (444 RGB) mode (you need the coming upgrade to do so)
- you can use the dual (A-B) HD-SDI output in 1.5G mode, which is a single 422 10 bits output exactly the same as the monitor HD-SDI output

So, without the upgrade, you can only use one HD-SDI output to plug (chain) your monitor and your external recorder (ki-pro, nanoflash...). So, you can't output the monitor informations on them.
You also can't use an external (HDMI) viewfinder at the same time (excpet if your ki-pro can convert the HD-SDI signal back to HDMI...)

Can anybody ask Sony to make the A/B HD-SDI output availlable as single HD-SDI outputs, giving a total of 2 recording outputs and one monitoring output with on screen informations ?

Please, people who have a F3, confirm all that :)

Regards,

Prune

[Andrew Stone]

Resurrecting this old thread...

I just tried to hook up my Marshall 3G capable monitor to the A port of the 3G SDI port set on the back. Had a look through the menus to see if there is something I have to do to turn on these ports but cannot find it.

Can someone give me some guidance?

[Andrew Stone]

Figured it out... Changed the frame rate to 1920... 59.94i and, of course, the option to turn on 1.5G came up.

I generally shoot progressive so it didn't occur to me at the time.

[Giuseppe Pugliese]

Originally Posted by Philipp Eierund

But do they all output 10-Bit 422? Or are some of them limited to 8-Bit 420? I am currently running an AJA Ki Pro Mini on the SDI out and am not getting much better results when color correcting the footage compared to the internal 420 coded recorded on an SxS. The footage seems to fall appart around the same point. This makes me wonder if I'm truly recording 10-Bit.

Make sure your AJA is set to record at 10bit and not 8bit. The different when working with color will be greatly different with 10 vs 8 rather than the 420 vs 422. 8bit 422 will not hold up that well in color work vs 10bit 422.