F3 rig for ENG/EFP style work

Olof Ekbergh · February 4th, 2011, 09:08 PM

I have developed a shoulder system for the AF100, out now.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...ml#post1612333

I have an F3 on order and I will make a shoulder kit for it as well, probably similar. This kit will also be custom made for the NanoFlash and future CD products.

The F3 kit will be available wit AB Gold mount or IDX V-mount plates.

I am also about to ship my rail system that is independent of the shoulder/battery system. But will interface with it.

I will post here when I have a BETA version for testing available.

Some photos of the AF100 setup.

Peter Corbett · February 4th, 2011, 10:33 PM

Sounds good Olef. Your work is always very nice and very reasonably priced. The F3 has a slightly different conguration to the AF100. Perhaps the rig could be adjustable so if used with a Zacuto Z-finder, the large side-mounted LCD can be used as the VF, in a similar way to the Sony EX3.

Thierry Humeau · February 5th, 2011, 09:07 AM

I am going to use the F3 for doco and EFP style work and need a rig that is light, practicle, compact and can be taken on and off a tripod easily. I am looking at assembling a system from parts manufactured by Vocas Systems BV. Although I am ordering the F3 with the 3-prime set, I will most likely use a combination of Nikon DX zoom lenses (17-55 F2.8 and 50-200 F3.5) and older Nikon SLR lenses (for the long end) using MTF's Nikon adaptor. Also, I will definitely use an external EVF such as Zacuto's EVF Z-Finder or Cineroid's one. I think this will give me much more better shooting/focusin accuracy and better balance because with the EFV mounted forward, I'll be able to better balance the camera on the shoulder mount. I am not planning to use a follow focus or matte box for EFP style work but will eventually when using PL lenses. So, this is what I have in mind from Vocas:

- 0350-0600 Rail support “Pro"
- 0390-0002 Handgrip set
- 0370-0001 15mm shoulder support
- 0370-0100 battery adapter plate (I am planning to power the camera and EVF from a single lithium V-Mount battery which will give me plenty of power for a day and help balance the rig)

Here is the link to Vocas products catalog
http://www.vocas.com/pdf/Vocas%20Systems%20catalog.pdf

Any thoughts?

Thierry.

Andrew Stone · February 5th, 2011, 11:48 AM

Hi Theirry,

I am familiar with Vocas's incredibly light matteboxes but not their rails plates and adapters which look very good.

The rails support device looks very good and a lot lighter than a lot of the other solutions out there. One thing I would be thinking about is height adjustment. It doesn't look like it can go up or down to any great extent so you would be looking a riser for your heavier lenses or a mattebox that needs some gross adjustment for bigger lenses and so on. The options aren't all that great and most are quite heavy. I still am very attracted to this rails plate despite what I have said. I wouldn't preclude using a mattebox even though initially you do not plan on it. You want your baseplate to accommodate your needs now and in the future.

You should have a look at a video clip that Andy Shipsides has posted on the Able Cine Tech blog that shows an AF-100 kitted out with a shoulder mount solution. Some of the items are outrageously expensive but many of the options are affordable and the best on the market from a practicality standpoint.

AF100 Rigging: PL Mount Configuration | CineTechnica

Steve Kalle · February 5th, 2011, 12:04 PM

Any thoughts? YES.

Have you tested that Vocas rig yet? I ask because my local Abel Cine has both that Vocas rig and the Zacuto Newsman rig (without offset bracket) and I greatly preferred the Zacuto, which is why I now have it for my EX3. With the Zacuto, I can do so much more due to it being modular. I have the Red Plate, Double Mount, Wireless Plate and Switronix V-mount plate.

DoubleMount, V3, includes 7" rods - Zacuto
Red Plate, V3 - Zacuto
Wireless Plate - Zacuto

The Zacuto's hand grips are the perfect length to alleviate any stress on my back (I have a bad back).

I can stick 2 wireless receivers on the back; mount a nanoFlash to the rear EX3 shoe; use a Swit v-mount battery; use a 3.5lb weight on the very back; have a SolaENG 3 on the front shoe.

When I get the F3, I can easily attach a number of arms from Zacuto in various places for a 7" LCD.

And yes, I agree that the Zacuto parts are expensive but they have a lifetime warranty and hold their resale value very well.

Peter Corbett · February 5th, 2011, 04:32 PM

I wonder if the new electronic Zacuto viewfinder would work, attached with a suitable Zacuto mount? The built-in LCD on the F3 is probably too close to the body and low to use with a traditional Z-Finder.

Ola Christoffersson · February 5th, 2011, 04:33 PM

I've spent some serious time trying to figure out a good solution to do hand held with my EX1 and also to plan for the arrival of my F3. I've been using the chinese "el cheapo" shoulder mount for almost three years and it's OK but not good. In the last couple of weeks I've tried the Genus hand held rig and also tried configuring a Zacuto shoulder rig with batteries as counter weights.

My conclusion is that no matter what I try it's either unbalanced (front heavy) or very long and heavy. I finally decided to go about the problem in an entierly different way. I found the Turtle X from Easyrig (EasyRig). It's almost laughably simple in it's concept but it works remarkably well. I've only heard good things about it from people who have used it extensively but I have myself only tried it in a shop and for 30 minutes in the field. So far it feels very good!

I've got my camera set up on Zacuto rails and I've ordered a Zacuto follow focus, a Genus Mattebox and a single Zacuto hand grip to get my right hand to a more comfortable position. Hopefully combined with the Easyrig this will be a very comfortable hand held rig for my F3.

Thierry Humeau · February 19th, 2011, 07:52 AM

Also, a very interesting rig from Sony here:

http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebService...p2bp_v2464.pdf

And a demo on YouTube here:
YouTube - SONY ?????????? VCT-SP2BP????

I like the fact that it is primarely designed to go between shoulder and tripod and looks pretty slick and compact. As anyone tried it?

Thierry.

Andy Shipsides · February 19th, 2011, 12:50 PM

I'm not a big fan of any rig that puts the camera out in front of you.. Just too heavy and especially with a zoom lens.

I put together this for a test shoot (sorry for the low quality pics)

Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2cu4bj - Shared by AndyShipsides
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj - Shared by AndyShipsides
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2250ynj - Shared by AndyShipsides

Combines a base plate, grips, EVF, follow focus, and a battery plate in the back. It felt good on the shoulder even with the small Optimo zoom. By putting the viewfinder to the side and putting thecamera on your shoulder, the whole rig become more useable.

Andy Shipsides · February 19th, 2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Stone

You should have a look at a video clip that Andy Shipsides has posted on the Able Cine Tech blog that shows an AF-100 kitted out with a shoulder mount solution. Some of the items are outrageously expensive but many of the options are affordable and the best on the market from a practicality standpoint.

AF100 Rigging: PL Mount Configuration | CineTechnica

I missed your mention Andrew..what I posted above is basically the same rig with the F3 on it.

Nate Weaver · February 19th, 2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Shipsides

I'm not a big fan of any rig that puts the camera out in front of you.. Just too heavy and especially with a zoom lens.

I put together this for a test shoot (sorry for the low quality pics)

Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2cu4bj - Shared by AndyShipsides
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj - Shared by AndyShipsides
Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2250ynj - Shared by AndyShipsides

Combines a base plate, grips, EVF, follow focus, and a battery plate in the back. It felt good on the shoulder even with the small Optimo zoom. By putting the viewfinder to the side and putting thecamera on your shoulder, the whole rig become more useable.

I'd like to see that finder even farther forward, on something other than a noga arm...anybody in the early days of the Red EVF learned that finders on noga arms are for the birds, the forces loosen the arm and it moves around. The flipout LCD needs to be right by your cheek.

EVF bracket opportunity for VFGadgets.com!

Andy Shipsides · February 19th, 2011, 02:05 PM

Nate, I agree a viewfinder bracket of some kind would be best.

Nigel Akam · February 19th, 2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I'd like to see that finder even farther forward, on something other than a noga arm...anybody in the early days of the Red EVF learned that finders on noga arms are for the birds, the forces loosen the arm and it moves around. The flipout LCD needs to be right by your cheek.

EVF bracket opportunity for VFGadgets.com!

Nate

After playing I ended up doing the same thing with my EVF to try and get it lower. I'm going to gave David at VF a call to look into it. Also, I like what exmount.com did for their EX 3 shoulder mount. I hope they might be able to adapt it for the F3. Its all one piece with a built in shoulder pad that snaps into a Sony plate like some are used to on broadcast cameras

Andrew Stone · February 19th, 2011, 02:21 PM

Hi Andy,

I picked up GENUS shoulder pad a couple of weeks ago not realizing the shoulder pad does not come with the rails mounting hardware. It's just the pad.

Does Abel Cine Tech sell the bits that attach to the GENUS shoulder pad? Here are the GENUS part numbers for the missing bits, if this is of any help.

SKU/Order Codes:

GCSM-LOK1/4
Lock-Off Knobs 1/4"

GCSM-ADP
Universal Clip-On Adaptor with Lock-off Knob

John Cummings · February 19th, 2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

EVF bracket opportunity for VFGadgets.com!

Amen to that.

Andy...think you guys can pull that off?

February 4th, 2011, 09:08 PM	#16
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	I have developed a shoulder system for the AF100, out now. http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasoni...ml#post1612333 I have an F3 on order and I will make a shoulder kit for it as well, probably similar. This kit will also be custom made for the NanoFlash and future CD products. The F3 kit will be available wit AB Gold mount or IDX V-mount plates. I am also about to ship my rail system that is independent of the shoulder/battery system. But will interface with it. I will post here when I have a BETA version for testing available. Some photos of the AF100 setup. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Olof Ekbergh • olof@WestsideAV.com Westside A V Studios • http://www.WestsideAVstore.com/

February 4th, 2011, 10:33 PM	#17
Peter Corbett Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Victoria Australia Posts: 246	Sounds good Olef. Your work is always very nice and very reasonably priced. The F3 has a slightly different conguration to the AF100. Perhaps the rig could be adjustable so if used with a Zacuto Z-finder, the large side-mounted LCD can be used as the VF, in a similar way to the Sony EX3. __________________ Peter Corbett Powerhouse Productions www.php.com.au

February 5th, 2011, 09:07 AM	#18
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	I am going to use the F3 for doco and EFP style work and need a rig that is light, practicle, compact and can be taken on and off a tripod easily. I am looking at assembling a system from parts manufactured by Vocas Systems BV. Although I am ordering the F3 with the 3-prime set, I will most likely use a combination of Nikon DX zoom lenses (17-55 F2.8 and 50-200 F3.5) and older Nikon SLR lenses (for the long end) using MTF's Nikon adaptor. Also, I will definitely use an external EVF such as Zacuto's EVF Z-Finder or Cineroid's one. I think this will give me much more better shooting/focusin accuracy and better balance because with the EFV mounted forward, I'll be able to better balance the camera on the shoulder mount. I am not planning to use a follow focus or matte box for EFP style work but will eventually when using PL lenses. So, this is what I have in mind from Vocas: - 0350-0600 Rail support “Pro" - 0390-0002 Handgrip set - 0370-0001 15mm shoulder support - 0370-0100 battery adapter plate (I am planning to power the camera and EVF from a single lithium V-Mount battery which will give me plenty of power for a day and help balance the rig) Here is the link to Vocas products catalog http://www.vocas.com/pdf/Vocas%20Systems%20catalog.pdf Any thoughts? Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com Last edited by Thierry Humeau; February 5th, 2011 at 09:46 AM.

February 5th, 2011, 11:48 AM	#19
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Hi Theirry, I am familiar with Vocas's incredibly light matteboxes but not their rails plates and adapters which look very good. The rails support device looks very good and a lot lighter than a lot of the other solutions out there. One thing I would be thinking about is height adjustment. It doesn't look like it can go up or down to any great extent so you would be looking a riser for your heavier lenses or a mattebox that needs some gross adjustment for bigger lenses and so on. The options aren't all that great and most are quite heavy. I still am very attracted to this rails plate despite what I have said. I wouldn't preclude using a mattebox even though initially you do not plan on it. You want your baseplate to accommodate your needs now and in the future. You should have a look at a video clip that Andy Shipsides has posted on the Able Cine Tech blog that shows an AF-100 kitted out with a shoulder mount solution. Some of the items are outrageously expensive but many of the options are affordable and the best on the market from a practicality standpoint. AF100 Rigging: PL Mount Configuration \| CineTechnica Last edited by Andrew Stone; February 5th, 2011 at 05:18 PM. Reason: edited for clarity

February 5th, 2011, 04:32 PM	#21
Peter Corbett Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Victoria Australia Posts: 246	I wonder if the new electronic Zacuto viewfinder would work, attached with a suitable Zacuto mount? The built-in LCD on the F3 is probably too close to the body and low to use with a traditional Z-Finder. __________________ Peter Corbett Powerhouse Productions www.php.com.au

February 5th, 2011, 12:04 PM	#20
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Any thoughts? YES. Have you tested that Vocas rig yet? I ask because my local Abel Cine has both that Vocas rig and the Zacuto Newsman rig (without offset bracket) and I greatly preferred the Zacuto, which is why I now have it for my EX3. With the Zacuto, I can do so much more due to it being modular. I have the Red Plate, Double Mount, Wireless Plate and Switronix V-mount plate. DoubleMount, V3, includes 7" rods - Zacuto Red Plate, V3 - Zacuto Wireless Plate - Zacuto The Zacuto's hand grips are the perfect length to alleviate any stress on my back (I have a bad back). I can stick 2 wireless receivers on the back; mount a nanoFlash to the rear EX3 shoe; use a Swit v-mount battery; use a 3.5lb weight on the very back; have a SolaENG 3 on the front shoe. When I get the F3, I can easily attach a number of arms from Zacuto in various places for a 7" LCD. And yes, I agree that the Zacuto parts are expensive but they have a lifetime warranty and hold their resale value very well.

February 5th, 2011, 04:33 PM	#22
Ola Christoffersson Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 462	I've spent some serious time trying to figure out a good solution to do hand held with my EX1 and also to plan for the arrival of my F3. I've been using the chinese "el cheapo" shoulder mount for almost three years and it's OK but not good. In the last couple of weeks I've tried the Genus hand held rig and also tried configuring a Zacuto shoulder rig with batteries as counter weights. My conclusion is that no matter what I try it's either unbalanced (front heavy) or very long and heavy. I finally decided to go about the problem in an entierly different way. I found the Turtle X from Easyrig (EasyRig). It's almost laughably simple in it's concept but it works remarkably well. I've only heard good things about it from people who have used it extensively but I have myself only tried it in a shop and for 30 minutes in the field. So far it feels very good! I've got my camera set up on Zacuto rails and I've ordered a Zacuto follow focus, a Genus Mattebox and a single Zacuto hand grip to get my right hand to a more comfortable position. Hopefully combined with the Easyrig this will be a very comfortable hand held rig for my F3. __________________ Ola Christoffersson, Kamrat produktion, Stockholm - Sweden www.kamrat.tv

February 19th, 2011, 07:52 AM	#23
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	Also, a very interesting rig from Sony here: http://ws.sel.sony.com/PIPWebService...p2bp_v2464.pdf And a demo on YouTube here: YouTube - SONY ?????????? VCT-SP2BP???? I like the fact that it is primarely designed to go between shoulder and tripod and looks pretty slick and compact. As anyone tried it? Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

February 19th, 2011, 12:50 PM	#24
Andy Shipsides Sponsor: Abel CineTech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York, NY Posts: 361	I'm not a big fan of any rig that puts the camera out in front of you.. Just too heavy and especially with a zoom lens. I put together this for a test shoot (sorry for the low quality pics) Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2cu4bj - Shared by AndyShipsides Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h4ftkbhj - Shared by AndyShipsides Yfrog Photo : yfrog.com/h2250ynj - Shared by AndyShipsides Combines a base plate, grips, EVF, follow focus, and a battery plate in the back. It felt good on the shoulder even with the small Optimo zoom. By putting the viewfinder to the side and putting thecamera on your shoulder, the whole rig become more useable. __________________ Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com

February 19th, 2011, 02:05 PM	#27
Andy Shipsides Sponsor: Abel CineTech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York, NY Posts: 361	Nate, I agree a viewfinder bracket of some kind would be best. __________________ Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com

February 19th, 2011, 02:21 PM	#29
Andrew Stone Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 975	Hi Andy, I picked up GENUS shoulder pad a couple of weeks ago not realizing the shoulder pad does not come with the rails mounting hardware. It's just the pad. Does Abel Cine Tech sell the bits that attach to the GENUS shoulder pad? Here are the GENUS part numbers for the missing bits, if this is of any help. SKU/Order Codes: GCSM-LOK1/4 Lock-Off Knobs 1/4" GCSM-ADP Universal Clip-On Adaptor with Lock-off Knob