Sony UK to Announce PMW-F3 at 10am UTC on Facebook

Doug Jensen · November 10th, 2010, 08:26 PM

Why do you think you can't own one? it takes money to make money, and this is the kind of equipment that can vault you into a new level of production. Don't assume you can't make a camera like the F3 make you a ton of money if you learn to master it.
My first camera package back in 1984 (a Sony M3A and VO-4800 recorder) cost me about $20,000 back then on a lease at 18% interest. I was just out of college and had no money. I took the leap and never looked back. Don't make the mistake of not investing in gear that will make you money. The gear comes first, and then the money second. That is the truth. Too money people don't recognize that you must have the right tools for the trade or you'll never advance.

Erik Phairas · November 10th, 2010, 08:42 PM

I might be one of the few people that post here that do this solely as a hobby. I have no plans to make money doing any of this. I make fan films and dune videos, that's about it. I also have this thing about shooting at night. I love it for some reason. I am always on the look out for the perfect night camera. I bought the EX3 (and love it) mostly for it's low light abilities. The F3 has probably the best sensor for shooting at night that will ever come out.. ha ha..

There is hope yet. Sony may use that sensor in something more for the hobbyist like me. I'm not a fan of DSLRs I like Video cameras.

Brian Drysdale · November 11th, 2010, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Presas

I would only approach this camera as an option for rental, and given that, I'd likely rather rent R1 or Alexa. I doubt a staggering many would swing the other way.

Sony seem to be pushing the F3 as a B camera for the F35 and the F9000, I assume they researched that market and discovered a need for a compact 35mm sensor camera that can fulfil that requirement. This is different market to the AF100.

Not everyone want to shoot on RAW and a lot of investment has been made in HDCAM SR for television production.

Dave Elston · November 11th, 2010, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

Not everyone want to shoot on RAW and a lot of investment has been made in HDCAM SR for television production.

I agree, this comment got me thinking about that second mysterious lump under the red shroud...

While a lot of us might be hoping that Sony could have a surprise new lower-budget F3 sister-model under there, my gut tells me it might instead be a new HDCAM-SR portable recorder unit built specificallly with the F3 in mind (probably to use the new solid state SR media). Or it's just a selection of PL lenses - as has also been suggested here.

I think it does make more sense for Sony to offer a full SR-ready package to entice the market they are targeting than to split the market in two (not to mention the margin) by offering two cameras sharing "similar" tech specs at conflicting price points.

I think we probably will see (or at least hear about) Sony's answer to the AF100 some time next year, but at the initial suggested price point the F3 isn't it. I'm afraid we may well have to wait until NAB or perhaps even IBC for better news on that front.

Craig Seeman · November 11th, 2010, 07:22 AM

Side note: three threads pretty much about the same thing is a bit difficult to follow.

I'd thought I'd note a couple of things. People are mentioning HDCAM-SR but note that dual link apparently will NOT be ready when the camera is released. It will be an EX codec camera with HD-SDI connected to whatever (AJA KiPro Mini, etc).

When Panasonic came out with the HVX200, the EX1 came a long while later. It may be many months before Sony answers the AF100 in that market.

Craig Seeman · November 11th, 2010, 07:32 AM

Doug, a lot has changed in the market since 1984. Product life cycles are much shorter now as new gear with significant improvements can happen almost annually. Return On Investment may need to be much shorter as well.

Granted one needs to have the gear to make the money but one must look at your potential jobs coming in. If you see that having gear "x" can get you the job then get the job, buy the gear ASAP knowing the job will start to cover the cost of the job.

Too often though, people buy the gear thinking that will bring in the jobs. That was certainly the case when certain quality gear was "uncommon" but that's not as big a factor now. It's become the "good enough" factor now relative to shrinking budgets. If the client can't see the difference between an HDSLR, AF100, F3 but can see the difference in the rate you bill, they're going to gravitate towards "good enough."

Brian Drysdale · November 11th, 2010, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

Side note: three threads pretty much about the same thing is a bit difficult to follow.

I'd thought I'd note a couple of things. People are mentioning HDCAM-SR but note that dual link apparently will NOT be ready when the camera is released. It will be an EX codec camera with HD-SDI connected to whatever (AJA KiPro Mini, etc).

EX1 and EX3 are being used as a B cameras on HDCAM SR productions (as are DSLR)s, I assume there's a demand for a small camera which is a closer match to the Super 35mm sensors on the main cameras. Having only HD-SDI would be fine for much of this type of work. The price may reflect that Sony don't expect to sell huge numbers of these cameras and it fits in with the price pattern for their other professional cameras.

For a lot of productions this camera will be overkill, however, there seems to be another camera hidden from view under the red cloth, which may be the lower cost option people are asking for.

http://www.fdtimes.com/news/?p=2914

Dave Elston · November 11th, 2010, 05:35 PM

Just spotted this production in progress - looks like a first real-world test for the (prototype?) F3... should be worthwhile and interesting to keep an eye on their findings!

There are also some great close-ups of the camera on location - giving a good indication of it's actual size - it somehow looks smaller than I imagined...
Short Film Featuring the Newly Announced Sony F3-Coming Soon!! | Stargate Studios VFX Channel

(BTW - I'm not connected to this production in anyway, other than having a shared interest in the capabilities of the camera!)

Nate Weaver · November 11th, 2010, 05:54 PM

Gah. Sam & Stargate are just down the street from me, next door to my fav coffee house.

Dave Elston · November 11th, 2010, 06:05 PM

Get down there and demand a hands-on test!

...and grab me one of those Kaldi cappucinos while you're there!

David Heath · November 11th, 2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

When Panasonic came out with the HVX200, the EX1 came a long while later. It may be many months before Sony answers the AF100 in that market.

Craig, my memory is that the HVX200 and the Z1 were the big rivals of the time, seen as more or less head to head, and came out about the same time. (I seem to remember a lot said at the time about the HVX200vZ1vJVC HD100 shoot-out?)

Yes, the EX1 came out quite a while later, but I'd say was then a big step up on any of the three original HD cams in that price bracket.

Nate Weaver · November 11th, 2010, 07:45 PM

Yeah, Sony is going to be making a successor to the SRW-1 HDCAM SR recorder that records the codec to a new line of SxS cards.

The price on that will make the PMW's price look like nothing, I suspect. The real customers for a box like that will be F35 owners, along with Panavision to mate with Genesis.

I think the real hope is that there will be a new Ki Mini that will do ProRes 444 come NAB.

Craig Seeman · November 12th, 2010, 01:22 AM

When HVX200 is was card based recording with 24p native and overcrank with a codec that was much better than HDV. The next camera to rival that was EX1 which added 1/2" sensors. It's all about competitive feature set.

Currently Sony does not have a competitive feature set to AF100 . . . and may not for a year or so as happened with HVX200 and EX1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

Craig, my memory is that the HVX200 and the Z1 were the big rivals of the time, seen as more or less head to head, and came out about the same time. (I seem to remember a lot said at the time about the HVX200vZ1vJVC HD100 shoot-out?)

Yes, the EX1 came out quite a while later, but I'd say was then a big step up on any of the three original HD cams in that price bracket.

Brian Drysdale · November 12th, 2010, 02:26 AM

Sony seem to have a more indie friendly camera due to be announced.

My comment on the F3 is that the handicam layout is pushing it for handheld work using modern PL cine prime lenses which can weigh 4 to 5 lbs, never mind the accessories.

Erik Phairas · November 12th, 2010, 07:40 AM

That other red cloth is way too small to be anything serious, maybe it is the zoom lens. The F3 is barely bigger than an EX1 going by the pics. What's under than other cloth looks to be about as big as the NEX-VG10 camcorder. I can't imagine they would put that new chip in a body THAT small.

November 10th, 2010, 08:26 PM	#31
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Why do you think you can't own one? it takes money to make money, and this is the kind of equipment that can vault you into a new level of production. Don't assume you can't make a camera like the F3 make you a ton of money if you learn to master it. My first camera package back in 1984 (a Sony M3A and VO-4800 recorder) cost me about $20,000 back then on a lease at 18% interest. I was just out of college and had no money. I took the leap and never looked back. Don't make the mistake of not investing in gear that will make you money. The gear comes first, and then the money second. That is the truth. Too money people don't recognize that you must have the right tools for the trade or you'll never advance. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

November 10th, 2010, 08:42 PM	#32
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	I might be one of the few people that post here that do this solely as a hobby. I have no plans to make money doing any of this. I make fan films and dune videos, that's about it. I also have this thing about shooting at night. I love it for some reason. I am always on the look out for the perfect night camera. I bought the EX3 (and love it) mostly for it's low light abilities. The F3 has probably the best sensor for shooting at night that will ever come out.. ha ha.. There is hope yet. Sony may use that sensor in something more for the hobbyist like me. I'm not a fan of DSLRs I like Video cameras. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

November 11th, 2010, 05:54 PM	#39
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Gah. Sam & Stargate are just down the street from me, next door to my fav coffee house. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 11th, 2010, 07:45 PM	#42
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Yeah, Sony is going to be making a successor to the SRW-1 HDCAM SR recorder that records the codec to a new line of SxS cards. The price on that will make the PMW's price look like nothing, I suspect. The real customers for a box like that will be F35 owners, along with Panavision to mate with Genesis. I think the real hope is that there will be a new Ki Mini that will do ProRes 444 come NAB. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 12th, 2010, 07:40 AM	#45
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	That other red cloth is way too small to be anything serious, maybe it is the zoom lens. The F3 is barely bigger than an EX1 going by the pics. What's under than other cloth looks to be about as big as the NEX-VG10 camcorder. I can't imagine they would put that new chip in a body THAT small. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

November 11th, 2010, 07:22 AM	#35
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Side note: three threads pretty much about the same thing is a bit difficult to follow. I'd thought I'd note a couple of things. People are mentioning HDCAM-SR but note that dual link apparently will NOT be ready when the camera is released. It will be an EX codec camera with HD-SDI connected to whatever (AJA KiPro Mini, etc). When Panasonic came out with the HVX200, the EX1 came a long while later. It may be many months before Sony answers the AF100 in that market.

November 11th, 2010, 07:32 AM	#36
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Doug, a lot has changed in the market since 1984. Product life cycles are much shorter now as new gear with significant improvements can happen almost annually. Return On Investment may need to be much shorter as well. Granted one needs to have the gear to make the money but one must look at your potential jobs coming in. If you see that having gear "x" can get you the job then get the job, buy the gear ASAP knowing the job will start to cover the cost of the job. Too often though, people buy the gear thinking that will bring in the jobs. That was certainly the case when certain quality gear was "uncommon" but that's not as big a factor now. It's become the "good enough" factor now relative to shrinking budgets. If the client can't see the difference between an HDSLR, AF100, F3 but can see the difference in the rate you bill, they're going to gravitate towards "good enough."

November 11th, 2010, 05:35 PM	#38
Dave Elston Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: UK 50i/25p Land Posts: 103	Just spotted this production in progress - looks like a first real-world test for the (prototype?) F3... should be worthwhile and interesting to keep an eye on their findings! There are also some great close-ups of the camera on location - giving a good indication of it's actual size - it somehow looks smaller than I imagined... Short Film Featuring the Newly Announced Sony F3-Coming Soon!! \| Stargate Studios VFX Channel (BTW - I'm not connected to this production in anyway, other than having a shared interest in the capabilities of the camera!)

November 11th, 2010, 06:05 PM	#40
Dave Elston Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: UK 50i/25p Land Posts: 103	Get down there and demand a hands-on test! ...and grab me one of those Kaldi cappucinos while you're there!

November 12th, 2010, 02:26 AM	#44
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,152	Sony seem to have a more indie friendly camera due to be announced. My comment on the F3 is that the handicam layout is pushing it for handheld work using modern PL cine prime lenses which can weigh 4 to 5 lbs, never mind the accessories.