Sony pricing strategy at DVinfo.net

Jason Strongfield · July 23rd, 2007, 01:35 PM

I am not really familiar with Sony Pricing Strategy at all. How long does it take for Sony to allow their seller to sell below MSRP ??

The canon XH-A1 seen a very dramatic drop in price in very short time.

Boyd Ostroff · July 23rd, 2007, 01:45 PM

I remember the Z1 was very popular when released and I kept waiting for prices to go down. I got mine about 6 months after introduction and I think the price had dropped from $4,900 to $4,700 IIRC.

Since the EX is eagerly anticipated I wouldn't hold my breath for any discounts...

Matt Buys · July 23rd, 2007, 05:20 PM

I was wondering the same thing. I think the A1 dropped because the V1 was a close competitor. The HV20 price has not dropped. My neighbor paid more for his a few weeks ago (from BH) than when I did when they came out. I hope the EX price goes down but if there's no close competitor's then I'm guessing it will stay high until someone responds.

Jason Strongfield · July 23rd, 2007, 07:42 PM

I dont think Canon can respond to tapeless acquisition as they do not have any 'PRO CODEC' like Panasonic and Sony.

It be interesting to see how Canon and JVC are going to respond to "tapeless".

The only competition to the XDCam EX is probably the HVX200, For me (narrative), the final verdict is going to be the actual 24p footage the 2 cams put out.

Bob Grant · July 24th, 2007, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Strongfield

I am not really familiar with Sony Pricing Strategy at all. How long does it take for Sony to allow their seller to sell below MSRP ??

The canon XH-A1 seen a very dramatic drop in price in very short time.

I guess this depends on which country you're talking about. Down here retailers can sell for whatever they like, by law. Well that's the theory, if you looked at our petrol prices you'd be hard pressed to be believe it. However with hitech gear you can find significant discounts and Sony do seem pretty aggressive in their pricing.

My gut feeling is Sony will go for the lowest possible pricing on this camera. The more XDCAM cameras they get out there the more it expands the commitment to the format and that's good business sense. It makes it very hard for the competition to claw back market share.

The other factor that works in favour of a lower margin on this camera is assuming Sony get it right out of the box then warranty costs should be lower with no tape transport to go wrong.

Peter Jefferson · July 25th, 2007, 05:29 AM

Canon did try to syphon out the bad eggs when teh XL2 was released and only allowed several big name retailers to stock the camera, in turn a tonne of grey market units hit this shores pretty quick and much cheaper prices. In addition to the "select few" retailers, a monthly quota was also "recomended" in turn if X number of units were not sold per month, the distribution channel would be closed to that retailer.
With the Grey imports, people were selling units at the same price that Aussie retailers were buying them wholesale.

Needless to say, this didnt last long, now though, to combat the isuse of grey imports, Canon offer cashback deals etc etc

As Bob has mentioned, Sony are very agresive with pricing, however i feel that they will be counting more on the low cost of SxS cards to help sell the camera as opposed cutting prices early on.

The Z1 had a tag here of a lil under 9k upon launch. this dropped quickly to about 8200 street price. Since then it has dropped dramatically to hit around the 5-6k mark.. in tune with the Canon A1..
Now this is almost a $3000 drop in about 2 years..

Do not for one second doubt that this camera will not move. It will.. in truckloads per day. And whgile it moves, prices wont change aside from retailer vying for your dollar.
Do not be alarmed when you are advised that the camera is out of stock.. because it will be..
This is not hype, this is fact.

Why do i say that?

1) Sony have a MASSIVE 1/2 CCD ENG market hold already established. For many, this will be their step to HD (Consider how many DSR250's upwards to the 370's are out there. Consider how many JVC ENG users are out there... Many have not jumped ship to HDV simply because of the CCD and compression issues of HDV camcorders.
Despite the change in form factor, these users will definately be looking long and hard at this unit when it comes time to upgrade..
2) Not many people "like" HDV and the sacrifices made to achieve these HD resolutions.. especially CCD size and lens abherations
3) Uncompresed Audio - nuff said
4) Similar to P2 in workflow, but more efficient due to lower bandwidths
5) Editing straight off XDCam written disc archive with virtually every NLE on the market, with NO NEED to transcode to any other format
6) Less storage requirements
7) SDI output (will heavily compete against Canon H1 and HVX) maybe even DSR 450 with add-on board
8) Cost of media
9) support
10) and probably one of the most significant. This unit records at true HD resolutions of 1920x1080. NOT HDV 1440x1080 resolution.
In turn, this native res is compliant for BlueRay "BluePrint" output.
No additional scaling is required to deliver on BD.
Note that HDV resolutions are NOT compliant with BlueRay, despite the fact that machines like the PS3 can playback Native HDV
As it stands HDV at 1440, MUST be scaled up to 1920 to comply with the BD standards. In turn, any authoring tool bearing the symbol of BlueRay, must re-encode your footage to comply
This alleviates that additional step and retains your image integrity

To many, the above are just several reasns to consider this cam over the competitors. Its also the step many 1/2 ENG users have been waiting for.. and theres ALOT of those users out there..
I dont see the price for this unit changing much soon after launch simply becuase there is nothing else out there that can compete with it

Mark Kenfield · July 25th, 2007, 08:09 PM

Peter, where does it say that the EX will have a native 1920x1080 resolution? It would be great if it did. By I was under the impression that the sensors would be 1440x1080.

Peter Jefferson · July 25th, 2007, 08:30 PM

The XDcamHD format itself is 1920x1080... the format and codcs are identical irrespective of which XDCamHD camera u use. (whether it be scaled or not)

In this case, its not scaled (according to the sales blurbs and videos were seeing about this camera)

Simon Wyndham · July 26th, 2007, 04:03 AM

Quote:

The XDcamHD format itself is 1920x1080

Fraid not. XDCAM HD is 1440x1080. The forthcoming 422 2/3" camera will record full 1920x1080 though.

Sony are being tight lipped about the final specs of the XDCAM EX. Most people who claim to know what the specs are don't.

Peter Jefferson · July 26th, 2007, 09:35 PM

Sorry I should have been clearer..
all the XDCamHD footage that ive worked with has been native 1920x1080

In addition, most reports on the sensor itself boast (keyword) 1920x1080

Furthermore, from press releases offered to the media from Sonys camp... comments such as
" In the $8,000 price range, the camera has a manual focus with a "real" ring and 1/2 in. sensors at 1920x1080 native resolution. XDCAM EX is clearly a competitor to Panasonic's HVX200—and judging by the specs, it could prove to be a better option." <Source dv.com> are littering the presses

Simon Wyndham · July 27th, 2007, 07:26 AM

I can't comment on the EX, but it is possible that it will have 1920x1080 sensors.

But in as far as the current XDCAM HD models go the sensor is 1440x1080 and so is the footage that is laid down to tape. If the footage you edited was 1920 then it has been interpolated at some stage.

Peter Jefferson · July 28th, 2007, 03:45 AM

Doesnt seem like it from this end.. when i get the cartridge with the shiny disc and throw it in Vegas it shows up as 1920x1080

Interpolation or not, the file itself is showing it to be 1920... I cant help or change that fact from this end.. argue til the cows come home, but in all honesty, there'd be no point.

Chris Hurd · August 6th, 2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Jefferson

Doesnt seem like it from this end.. when i get the cartridge with the shiny disc and throw it in Vegas it shows up as 1920x1080

Of course, because Vegas changes it from 1440 anamorphic to 1920 square, that's all.

Quote:

Interpolation or not, the file itself is showing it to be 1920... I cant help or change that fact from this end.. argue til the cows come home, but in all honesty, there'd be no point.

Well, there's no "argument" about it -- just a matter of understanding how it works. It records on disc as 1440... it displays on any HDTV as 1920 square, and it opens in Vegas and other apps as 1920 square... no big deal. Same as any other 1080i HD format.

July 23rd, 2007, 01:35 PM	#1
Jason Strongfield Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA Posts: 195	Sony pricing strategy I am not really familiar with Sony Pricing Strategy at all. How long does it take for Sony to allow their seller to sell below MSRP ?? The canon XH-A1 seen a very dramatic drop in price in very short time.

July 23rd, 2007, 01:45 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	I remember the Z1 was very popular when released and I kept waiting for prices to go down. I got mine about 6 months after introduction and I think the price had dropped from $4,900 to $4,700 IIRC. Since the EX is eagerly anticipated I wouldn't hold my breath for any discounts...

July 23rd, 2007, 05:20 PM	#3
Matt Buys Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 426	I was wondering the same thing. I think the A1 dropped because the V1 was a close competitor. The HV20 price has not dropped. My neighbor paid more for his a few weeks ago (from BH) than when I did when they came out. I hope the EX price goes down but if there's no close competitor's then I'm guessing it will stay high until someone responds.

July 23rd, 2007, 07:42 PM	#4
Jason Strongfield Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA Posts: 195	I dont think Canon can respond to tapeless acquisition as they do not have any 'PRO CODEC' like Panasonic and Sony. It be interesting to see how Canon and JVC are going to respond to "tapeless". The only competition to the XDCam EX is probably the HVX200, For me (narrative), the final verdict is going to be the actual 24p footage the 2 cams put out.

July 25th, 2007, 05:29 AM	#6
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Canon did try to syphon out the bad eggs when teh XL2 was released and only allowed several big name retailers to stock the camera, in turn a tonne of grey market units hit this shores pretty quick and much cheaper prices. In addition to the "select few" retailers, a monthly quota was also "recomended" in turn if X number of units were not sold per month, the distribution channel would be closed to that retailer. With the Grey imports, people were selling units at the same price that Aussie retailers were buying them wholesale. Needless to say, this didnt last long, now though, to combat the isuse of grey imports, Canon offer cashback deals etc etc As Bob has mentioned, Sony are very agresive with pricing, however i feel that they will be counting more on the low cost of SxS cards to help sell the camera as opposed cutting prices early on. The Z1 had a tag here of a lil under 9k upon launch. this dropped quickly to about 8200 street price. Since then it has dropped dramatically to hit around the 5-6k mark.. in tune with the Canon A1.. Now this is almost a $3000 drop in about 2 years.. Do not for one second doubt that this camera will not move. It will.. in truckloads per day. And whgile it moves, prices wont change aside from retailer vying for your dollar. Do not be alarmed when you are advised that the camera is out of stock.. because it will be.. This is not hype, this is fact. Why do i say that? 1) Sony have a MASSIVE 1/2 CCD ENG market hold already established. For many, this will be their step to HD (Consider how many DSR250's upwards to the 370's are out there. Consider how many JVC ENG users are out there... Many have not jumped ship to HDV simply because of the CCD and compression issues of HDV camcorders. Despite the change in form factor, these users will definately be looking long and hard at this unit when it comes time to upgrade.. 2) Not many people "like" HDV and the sacrifices made to achieve these HD resolutions.. especially CCD size and lens abherations 3) Uncompresed Audio - nuff said 4) Similar to P2 in workflow, but more efficient due to lower bandwidths 5) Editing straight off XDCam written disc archive with virtually every NLE on the market, with NO NEED to transcode to any other format 6) Less storage requirements 7) SDI output (will heavily compete against Canon H1 and HVX) maybe even DSR 450 with add-on board 8) Cost of media 9) support 10) and probably one of the most significant. This unit records at true HD resolutions of 1920x1080. NOT HDV 1440x1080 resolution. In turn, this native res is compliant for BlueRay "BluePrint" output. No additional scaling is required to deliver on BD. Note that HDV resolutions are NOT compliant with BlueRay, despite the fact that machines like the PS3 can playback Native HDV As it stands HDV at 1440, MUST be scaled up to 1920 to comply with the BD standards. In turn, any authoring tool bearing the symbol of BlueRay, must re-encode your footage to comply This alleviates that additional step and retains your image integrity To many, the above are just several reasns to consider this cam over the competitors. Its also the step many 1/2 ENG users have been waiting for.. and theres ALOT of those users out there.. I dont see the price for this unit changing much soon after launch simply becuase there is nothing else out there that can compete with it

July 25th, 2007, 08:09 PM	#7
Mark Kenfield Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 470	Peter, where does it say that the EX will have a native 1920x1080 resolution? It would be great if it did. By I was under the impression that the sensors would be 1440x1080.

July 25th, 2007, 08:30 PM	#8
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	The XDcamHD format itself is 1920x1080... the format and codcs are identical irrespective of which XDCamHD camera u use. (whether it be scaled or not) In this case, its not scaled (according to the sales blurbs and videos were seeing about this camera)

July 26th, 2007, 09:35 PM	#10
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Sorry I should have been clearer.. all the XDCamHD footage that ive worked with has been native 1920x1080 In addition, most reports on the sensor itself boast (keyword) 1920x1080 Furthermore, from press releases offered to the media from Sonys camp... comments such as " In the $8,000 price range, the camera has a manual focus with a "real" ring and 1/2 in. sensors at 1920x1080 native resolution. XDCAM EX is clearly a competitor to Panasonic's HVX200—and judging by the specs, it could prove to be a better option." <Source dv.com> are littering the presses

July 27th, 2007, 07:26 AM	#11
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I can't comment on the EX, but it is possible that it will have 1920x1080 sensors. But in as far as the current XDCAM HD models go the sensor is 1440x1080 and so is the footage that is laid down to tape. If the footage you edited was 1920 then it has been interpolated at some stage.

July 28th, 2007, 03:45 AM	#12
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Doesnt seem like it from this end.. when i get the cartridge with the shiny disc and throw it in Vegas it shows up as 1920x1080 Interpolation or not, the file itself is showing it to be 1920... I cant help or change that fact from this end.. argue til the cows come home, but in all honesty, there'd be no point.