New promo video XDCAM EX and XDCAM HD422

Jamie Allan · August 22nd, 2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Easy does it, Jamie... we're all friends here. I did not misquote you. I quoted you directly from your earlier post in this thread. If it seems lifted out of context, then I apologize. You had said "we were talking about..." but in actuality the only person talking about it was Vaughn Wood in this post. You then asked "would a lower-cost camera still be branded with cinealta," to which I replied that it's been done before. For everyone: let's please keep our emotions in check and our attitudes positive at all times -- thanks in advance,

Sorry Chris, I meant that #@?! in a completely friendly way, I realised why you thought that - sorry I didnt make it clear. It's been quite a slow day and I'm rather bored and frustrated :) I guess my sense of humour and sarcasm don't quite come over that well in a serious forum, apologies from across the pond.

Greg - I work for one of the (more successful) sony specialist dealers in the UK, I think theres 10-13 now but not many with the knowledge/customer base we have.

Mike Williams · August 22nd, 2007, 12:01 PM

So just to be sure...

In terms of real time how fast will the cards transfer to say an HDD.

It would seem that the pic in the link is an old one and the video is the newest version. Did I read correctly in that the EX will be about the size and weight of the V1 ???

Mike

Theodore McNeil · August 22nd, 2007, 08:51 PM

From what I saw at NAB, I think it will be a bit heavier than V1U. More like a bulky z1u.

Greg Boston · August 22nd, 2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Williams

So just to be sure...

In terms of real time how fast will the cards transfer to say an HDD.

It would seem that the pic in the link is an old one and the video is the newest version. Did I read correctly in that the EX will be about the size and weight of the V1 ???

Mike

Held one at NAB for about 10 minutes. About the size of the HVX200, maybe a tad smaller.

-gb-

Mike Williams · August 23rd, 2007, 07:58 AM

I like my Z1. The tape issues I was having recently actually were not the fault of the camera but that is another story.

I use a Glidecam without the vest and really would like the thing to weigh right around the Z1` wieght

The article said it would be about the size and weight of the V....

It did not seem that way to me from the NAB Vid either.

When will we know any new real news?

Thanks

Mike

Jamie Allan · August 23rd, 2007, 09:34 AM

Official launch is at IBC next week

Alister Chapman · August 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM

Thursday 6th of September is when Sony will have their press event. Usually the Sony IBC press release appears on the internet a day or so before IBC and there may be some info in that.

Piotr Wozniacki · August 23rd, 2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Williams

So just to be sure...

In terms of real time how fast will the cards transfer to say an HDD.

It would seem that the pic in the link is an old one and the video is the newest version. Did I read correctly in that the EX will be about the size and weight of the V1 ???

Mike

The EX is 2.2 kg (Z1 - 2.1 kg); this should give you the idea of its size, as well.

Heath McKnight · August 23rd, 2007, 07:37 PM

I'm hoping it's either something like the tech going into the CCDs in the high-end new Sony HDCAMs or CMOS. Even Nikon DSLRs are going CMOS now.

heath

Mike Williams · August 23rd, 2007, 09:19 PM

Perfect weight!

I love it even more... :)

So do we know how fast the vs real time the download speed is +/-

I would assume it is dependant on the data rate it was shot in. I have read 2 or 3x real time... loading from card to Hard Disk

MRW

Guy Barwood · August 24th, 2007, 02:19 AM

Heath, you should be aware that all recent Nikon DSLRs (excluding the D2H) use Sony sensors. This includes the CMOS D2x and the new CMOS D3 and D300. These new D3 series include noise reduction included at each sensor site like Canon have had for a while so noise performance should rival (or as rumoured surpass) Canon's noise performance.

Hopefully this technology will role on to Sony developed sensors for video cameras as well which will be great for increasing sensitivity of a sensor while keeping noise to a minimum.

It is also interesting to note that the Nikon D3 has a Sony 35mm sensor and still comes in with a RRP of only US$5000. Excluding the cost of the lens on the front, how come the video industry still insists on charging US$8000 ($3K more) for a camera based on a set of 3 tiny little 1/2" sensors... The D3 can produce & process 108 megapixels of 14bit pixel data per second (9fps at 12.1MP).

Greg Boston · August 24th, 2007, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

It is also interesting to note that the Nikon D3 has a Sony 35mm sensor and still comes in with a RRP of only US$5000. Excluding the cost of the lens on the front, how come the video industry still insists on charging US$8000 ($3K more) for a camera based on a set of 3 tiny little 1/2" sensors... The D3 can produce & process 108 megapixels of 14bit pixel data per second (9fps at 12.1MP).

There's a lot more to a video camera than that. Don't forget the audio processing which is going to be head and shoulders above what you'll get from a digital still camera in movie mode.

And can the D3 'sustain' that 9fps, or is that a burst mode? The video camera has a lot of demands placed on the circuitry to process that much data in 30 to 60 fps.

-gb-

Chris Hurd · August 24th, 2007, 09:10 AM

The short burst mode of a D-SLR still camera is not a legitimate comparison to the indefinitely sustained thirty frames per second requirement for video... the argument re: D-SLR sensors whose gates cannot be cleared fast enough to accommodate High Definition video at 60i or 60p, vs. the smaller video-specific sensors that can, is totally invalid and holds no water at all.

Tim Polster · August 24th, 2007, 02:06 PM

Plus, one must factor in the number of units sold.

Companies like Canon or Nikon sell way more DSLR's than Sony or Panasonic sell prosumer or professional video cameras.

This lowers the price of the DSLR's

Guy Barwood · August 24th, 2007, 05:26 PM

The 9fps is not a burst mode, it is the contineous high shooting speed. The first thing that stops the camera from shooting is the inability to write that much data out fast enough (ie CF cards arn't fast enough). The main reason it can't go faster is the physical shutter mechanism a DSLR has the video camera doesn't need to worry about.

You compare

12.1MP @ 9fps = 108.9Mp/s

2MP @ 30fps = 60Mp/s

2MP @ 60fps = 120Mp/s

You can see there is very little difference in the sustained data throughput of these cameras at 60p. At 30p the DSLR has a lot more data to move. Sensors can be designed to output their data faster than previous models, Nikon have done this with their D3

Audio is probably one of the simplest parts on the video camera. Each type of camara has its differences of course, a video camera doesn't have to worry about a shutter and mirror, DSLRs are built much more robust than any handycam I have held, and it has to be able to record RAW and compressed data out, a video has contineous data flow and compression etc I don't see anything that means a video camera is that much more complex or expensive to design/manufacture than a high end DSLR. This is being prooven by RED who have a 35mm sensor in their camera, and guess what, their volume will be much less than this EX camera yet they are keeping their body price much lower comparing sensor size with price.

With supply and demand, it is Sony's choice to price high, sell less units but make more money per unit. They are just fortunate there isn't agressive competition in the video industry, everyone is just a little more interested in their profits than bettering their competition, unlike Nikon v Canon. Sony pretty much dominates this market and they know it. I can only hope that Red's pocket cam eventuates to something to make Sony change their approach.

If you think there is much more to a video camera such as the EX than a camera such as the D3 I think you are only fooling yourself, cause you arn't fooling me.

All just my personal opinion of course.

August 22nd, 2007, 12:01 PM	#62
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	Transfer rates in real time So just to be sure... In terms of real time how fast will the cards transfer to say an HDD. It would seem that the pic in the link is an old one and the video is the newest version. Did I read correctly in that the EX will be about the size and weight of the V1 ??? Mike

August 22nd, 2007, 08:51 PM	#63
Theodore McNeil Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Centreville, Maryland Posts: 258	From what I saw at NAB, I think it will be a bit heavier than V1U. More like a bulky z1u. __________________ http://twitter.com/tedmcneil

August 23rd, 2007, 07:58 AM	#65
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	Hmmmm I like my Z1. The tape issues I was having recently actually were not the fault of the camera but that is another story. I use a Glidecam without the vest and really would like the thing to weigh right around the Z1` wieght The article said it would be about the size and weight of the V.... It did not seem that way to me from the NAB Vid either. When will we know any new real news? Thanks Mike

August 23rd, 2007, 11:00 AM	#67
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Thursday 6th of September is when Sony will have their press event. Usually the Sony IBC press release appears on the internet a day or so before IBC and there may be some info in that. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

August 23rd, 2007, 07:37 PM	#69
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'm hoping it's either something like the tech going into the CCDs in the high-end new Sony HDCAMs or CMOS. Even Nikon DSLRs are going CMOS now. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 23rd, 2007, 09:34 AM	#66
Jamie Allan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Notts, UK Posts: 101	Official launch is at IBC next week

August 23rd, 2007, 09:19 PM	#70
Mike Williams Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USVI Posts: 232	Sweet Perfect weight! I love it even more... :) So do we know how fast the vs real time the download speed is +/- I would assume it is dependant on the data rate it was shot in. I have read 2 or 3x real time... loading from card to Hard Disk MRW

August 24th, 2007, 02:19 AM	#71
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Heath, you should be aware that all recent Nikon DSLRs (excluding the D2H) use Sony sensors. This includes the CMOS D2x and the new CMOS D3 and D300. These new D3 series include noise reduction included at each sensor site like Canon have had for a while so noise performance should rival (or as rumoured surpass) Canon's noise performance. Hopefully this technology will role on to Sony developed sensors for video cameras as well which will be great for increasing sensitivity of a sensor while keeping noise to a minimum. It is also interesting to note that the Nikon D3 has a Sony 35mm sensor and still comes in with a RRP of only US$5000. Excluding the cost of the lens on the front, how come the video industry still insists on charging US$8000 ($3K more) for a camera based on a set of 3 tiny little 1/2" sensors... The D3 can produce & process 108 megapixels of 14bit pixel data per second (9fps at 12.1MP).

August 24th, 2007, 09:10 AM	#73
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	The short burst mode of a D-SLR still camera is not a legitimate comparison to the indefinitely sustained thirty frames per second requirement for video... the argument re: D-SLR sensors whose gates cannot be cleared fast enough to accommodate High Definition video at 60i or 60p, vs. the smaller video-specific sensors that can, is totally invalid and holds no water at all. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 24th, 2007, 02:06 PM	#74
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Plus, one must factor in the number of units sold. Companies like Canon or Nikon sell way more DSLR's than Sony or Panasonic sell prosumer or professional video cameras. This lowers the price of the DSLR's

August 24th, 2007, 05:26 PM	#75
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	The 9fps is not a burst mode, it is the contineous high shooting speed. The first thing that stops the camera from shooting is the inability to write that much data out fast enough (ie CF cards arn't fast enough). The main reason it can't go faster is the physical shutter mechanism a DSLR has the video camera doesn't need to worry about. You compare 12.1MP @ 9fps = 108.9Mp/s 2MP @ 30fps = 60Mp/s 2MP @ 60fps = 120Mp/s You can see there is very little difference in the sustained data throughput of these cameras at 60p. At 30p the DSLR has a lot more data to move. Sensors can be designed to output their data faster than previous models, Nikon have done this with their D3 Audio is probably one of the simplest parts on the video camera. Each type of camara has its differences of course, a video camera doesn't have to worry about a shutter and mirror, DSLRs are built much more robust than any handycam I have held, and it has to be able to record RAW and compressed data out, a video has contineous data flow and compression etc I don't see anything that means a video camera is that much more complex or expensive to design/manufacture than a high end DSLR. This is being prooven by RED who have a 35mm sensor in their camera, and guess what, their volume will be much less than this EX camera yet they are keeping their body price much lower comparing sensor size with price. With supply and demand, it is Sony's choice to price high, sell less units but make more money per unit. They are just fortunate there isn't agressive competition in the video industry, everyone is just a little more interested in their profits than bettering their competition, unlike Nikon v Canon. Sony pretty much dominates this market and they know it. I can only hope that Red's pocket cam eventuates to something to make Sony change their approach. If you think there is much more to a video camera such as the EX than a camera such as the D3 I think you are only fooling yourself, cause you arn't fooling me. All just my personal opinion of course.