Thoughts on XDCam EX

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

Within a few months of when the HVX200 started shipping in volume, there were high-end CompactFlash cards with the necessary throughput for a fraction of the price of P2 cards.

Yes, but P2 predates the HVX200 by quite a long way with 2/3" SD cameras, and they were originally what it was developed for. I don't believe P2 sold many units at all until the HVX200 came out, and yes, by then P2 was already looking dated.

Of course that hasn't stopped it [the HVX200] from being popular and useful for some folks, but the XDCAM EX will be more practical for others.

Again, agreed, and it's not just the memory, but factors such as 1/2" chips and a proper manual lens.

It's not just the EX either, I wait with interest to see what future SxS products may appear.

[Mike Williams]

Maybe someone will figure out how to slip an SXS card into the P2 housing ala memory stick duo adapter. I am assuming that it can handle the data. I know this is an oversimplification but.... It seems like there are people heavily invested in P2 and would love a cheap card option.

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Mike Williams

Maybe someone will figure out how to slip an SXS card into the P2 housing ala memory stick duo adapter.

I'd be surprised if that ever happens, since you'd have to simulate everything including handling the P2 RAID instructions. My guess is that people who are heavily invested in P2 will keep using it for as long as their existing equipment meets their needs, and then reevaluate their options for their next camera purchase. Plus P2 prices are dropping significantly now: it's still not cheap but it's getting less outrageous.

[Peter Arnold]

As you may know I am a P2 user and I agree on most parts with you. What is missing imho in the P2 world - simply because it is way to expensive on the media - is a cool deck. Something like the F30 or the F70. But I do not want to buy one of these either because of the xdcam disc it uses. I would like to go directly to solid state memory.

What do you guys think. Would it (hypothetically) be a good idea if Sony came out with a Player that goes along with the XDCAM EX with all the features you have on the F70 but uses solid state memory of any kind, probably SxS.

Or is there maybe already something in the pipeline.

(Booming voice from above: "we can neither confirm nor ...")

Peter

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Peter Arnold

What do you guys think. Would it (hypothetically) be a good idea if Sony came out with a Player that goes along with the XDCAM EX with all the features you have on the F70 but uses solid state memory of any kind, probably SxS.

Hypothetically the only hardware required for this would be a flash-card memory reader with an SxS slot, plus the necessary drivers for any computer to read XDCAM footage from the cards. One important consideration will be whether Sony makes the XDCAM HD codec readily accessible, as compared to DVCProHD which is a pain to play on a PC. In theory XDCAM HD could be used as a distribution codec now for watching video in this format at full quality on computers, Blu-ray discs and the Playstation 3, but will that happen?

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

...a flash-card memory reader with an SxS slot

Perhaps better stated as a common PC Express card slot.

[Peter Arnold]

Thanks for your reply Kevin and Chris

I was thinking more of a real deck with HD-SDI I/O and stuff like that. So i can take it anywhere and play HD Content back via component out. Just like a F70 but with SxS card capability. Like the Grass Valley Infinity media recorder that uses REV Pro and Compact Flash media. (if it ever appears on this planet)

I guess I keep on dreaming.

Peter

[Stu Holmes]

Originally Posted by Mike Williams

"Good HDV" tapes are almost $20 for a little plastic box and rollers, guides, tape inside... moving parts etc. How old is this technology?

Well... the HDV tapes are less than 10bucks at a well-known store in NY state. Still not cheap, but a long way from US$20 ! Maybe export costs etc to USVI bumps price up high.

[Mike Williams]

I hear you on that it is not quite $20 but is was close for a while on the Digital Masters. To my non technical mind it seems that tapes are more complicated and delicate than cards as far as all the little springs and rolling/moving parts.

I thought that for the most part cards are stamped out rather quickly. I know, again an over simplification but I think if the card idea gains traction in the consumer world we should see a dramatic reduction in price?

Fortunately we are in the United States VI and there is no duty on "photo/video" equipment from what I gather.

Everything else is very expensive though. Any thought on when Sony will do this press release?

MW

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Mike Williams

........I think if the card idea gains traction in the consumer world we should see a dramatic reduction in price?

I'd argue that solid state cards already have gained huge traction in the consumer world for still photography, let alone music and a raft of other uses, and we have already seen huge year on year decreases in price. I don't think comparisons with tape re pricing are really valid - the little springs and moving parts within tapes are still fairly "standard" engineering, whilst memory chip manufacture needs engineering on a microscopic scale.

I see the move to solid state happening in three phases:

1. Cheap enough to happen at all - memory is effectively part of the camera.
2. Cheap enough that immediate download is no longer necessary just to free up card space. Cheap enough that enough cards can be owned so that several days shooting can take place without the need to download.
3. Cheap enough to treat like tape now. Shoot to card and put on shelf.

I think we're at (1.) now with P2, and how viable it is depends on individual circumstance. I see the real explosion happening when we get to (2.) and I also see the day coming about a lot quicker with the advent of SxS than if we had to wait for P2 pricing to naturally drop to the right level. I also think it will be significant if SxS leads not just to cheaper high capacity cards, but very cheap lower capacity ones. (It doesn't have the same fixed, high cost per card of P2,regardless of size.) For many users, 4x16GB cards may be far more useful than a single 64GB card, for the same amount of money overall.

[Mike Williams]

As it stands right now I think I would go with cheap 18 gig cards in the place of more expensive larger capacity cards. Mentally it would be easier to take in the "all my eggs in one basket" sense :)

Lose the big card and it hurts. For me the published time of 2 hours on two 16gig cards is perfect! Some times I need to shoot continuolsy for up to 90 min sometimes more.

That feature alone is huge for me. The DOF on the bigger chips is huge too. Even better PQ than the Z1? Sweet! Better low light? .... I really can't wait to start shooting with this thing!

Does anyone want to speculate on the LUX?

I say VX2000/PD match.

[Vaughan Wood]

Let's hope eh?

If it is around 2 Lux they will have a absolute winner on their hands!

Vaughan

[Brian Standing]

I sure wish Sony would put it out with an onboard SATA controller, an e-SATA port and a power connector for a small external hard drive.

I'd so much rather dump the data onto a $50 external 2.5" 120gb SATA hard drive than spring for another $3-5K for the XDCAM disk drive (+$40 per disk) and/or cart a laptop around with me on a shoot.

It would be even better if you had the option of capturing directly to an external HD instead of, or in addition to, the SxS card.

But, then, I suppose, Sony couldn't make sure that you buy only THEIR products.... ***sigh****

[Greg Boston]

Well Brian, I'd say you've got some bad information that you're basing this stuff on. 3 to 5K? $40/disc?

The drive is supposed to retail for around $3K. Single layer discs are about $25 a piece. Haven't checked the price for dual layer discs yet.

Keep in mind that Sony went with an open format for the memory so you can buy ANYBODY'S card if it conforms to the SxS spec. So no, you don't have to buy only Sony support equipment.

-gb-

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Brian Standing

(+$40 per disk)

Actually it's under $30 per disk... which is much less expensive than HDCAM for the same recording length.

See http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...byte_Hard.html