Sony announces the XDCAM EX

Heath McKnight · May 25th, 2007, 09:09 AM

I will shoot some side-by-sides in 60i, 30p and 24p with the Z1u (in 60i, CF30 and 50i/CF25) and compare the noise. I'm now curious.

heath

Louis Mostert · May 25th, 2007, 11:37 AM

Alex,

Why is the noise signature so important? (I'm a noob)

Thanks

Heath McKnight · May 25th, 2007, 11:47 AM

Noise in an image is never a good thing. Chip size and the number of pixels have a lot to do with that. A small chip (1/4 inch or 1/3 inch, for example) that is HD means they're packing over a million pixels onto a smaller chip. This increases the signal-to-noise ratio.

I'll see if Graeme Nattress will comment further on this.

heath

Louis Mostert · May 25th, 2007, 11:56 AM

Thanks Heath

How is the 1/2" F350/330 with noise?

Graeme Nattress · May 25th, 2007, 11:59 AM

To over-simplify things, all things being equal, the smaller the pixel, the noisier it has and the less dynamic range it has. You can get around this in two ways - build bigger pixels, or you can build better pixels. Pixels tend to get better year on year, but they also tend to get smaller....

Becuase when a pixel gets full, it clips, the size of the pixel in what charge it can hold determines the largest amount of light it can take. On the other hand, noise limits the smallest amount of light it can accurately record. Together, hand in hand, size of pixel and noise control dynamic range.

Graeme

Heath McKnight · May 25th, 2007, 12:01 PM

Thanks as always, Graeme!

heath

Alex Leith · May 25th, 2007, 12:41 PM

And the way the analog signal from the CCD or CMOS is converted and processed by the camera; the various different techniques employed by the camera manufacturers to reduce the apparent noise in the image; and the video codec used in the recording; all influence the way the noise is displayed (the "noise signature").

Some cameras display the noise in dark areas. Some display noise over the entire image. Some display the noise as a fine grain. Some display the noise as blocks.

Of course what equates to an "attractive" noise signature is pretty much subjective. Personally I prefer something that looks more grainy but organic ("film-like"), than too clean but blocky ("electronic"). Again these are my subjective terms, and reflect my preference, but not necessarily anyone elses.

On the general scale of things the F330/350 are fairly noisy cameras in the shadows, but the gently granular quality of the noise combined with the 35mbit XDCAM HD codec looks really nice (in my opinion). I guess only time will tell whether the XDCAM EX will look more like the F330/350 or the V1...

Mark Utley · May 25th, 2007, 01:26 PM

Does anyone know if this camera will record proxies like the 330/350?

Tom Vaughan · May 27th, 2007, 02:00 PM

Can someone post a summary of what we know about the XDCAM EX camera?

3 x 1/2 " Sensors (CMOS?)
XDCAM format, 35 Mb/s (or is there a chance that this will offer 4:2:2 at 50 Mb/s?)
14x Fujinon lens
SxS (ExpressCard) flash memory storage - 2 cards
Price - under $8K
Launch date?

Thanks
Tom

Heath McKnight · May 27th, 2007, 02:03 PM

I don't remember seeing a 14x Fujinon lens. The lens isn't interchangable, it's fixed. Might be a Zeiss...

heath

Tom Vaughan · May 27th, 2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

I don't remember seeing a 14x Fujinon lens. The lens isn't interchangable, it's fixed. Might be a Zeiss...

heath

Thanks Heath. There was a post or two in this thread saying that the fixed lens was manufactured by Fujinon. See http://www.tapelessrev.com/xdcamnab2007.html

Tom

Heath McKnight · May 27th, 2007, 03:15 PM

Here are some photos Chris Hurd took:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91612

Nothing on the lens indicating who made it.

heath

Greg Boston · May 27th, 2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Here are some photos Chris Hurd took:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91612

Nothing on the lens indicating who made it.

heath

It's definitely a Fujinon lens on the XDCAM EX, Heath. 'Saw it with my own eyes', as they say.

-gb-

Heath McKnight · May 27th, 2007, 07:06 PM

I figured you did--when I was at the Sony NAB event, I didn't think to ask about the Fujinon, or look, for that matter!

heath

Steve Connor · May 28th, 2007, 02:43 AM

It is certainly a Fujinon lens, designed specifically for the EX.

May 25th, 2007, 09:09 AM	#226
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I will shoot some side-by-sides in 60i, 30p and 24p with the Z1u (in 60i, CF30 and 50i/CF25) and compare the noise. I'm now curious. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 25th, 2007, 11:47 AM	#228
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Noise in an image is never a good thing. Chip size and the number of pixels have a lot to do with that. A small chip (1/4 inch or 1/3 inch, for example) that is HD means they're packing over a million pixels onto a smaller chip. This increases the signal-to-noise ratio. I'll see if Graeme Nattress will comment further on this. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 25th, 2007, 11:59 AM	#230
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	To over-simplify things, all things being equal, the smaller the pixel, the noisier it has and the less dynamic range it has. You can get around this in two ways - build bigger pixels, or you can build better pixels. Pixels tend to get better year on year, but they also tend to get smaller.... Becuase when a pixel gets full, it clips, the size of the pixel in what charge it can hold determines the largest amount of light it can take. On the other hand, noise limits the smallest amount of light it can accurately record. Together, hand in hand, size of pixel and noise control dynamic range. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

May 25th, 2007, 12:01 PM	#231
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Thanks as always, Graeme! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 25th, 2007, 12:41 PM	#232
Alex Leith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northampton, England Posts: 500	And the way the analog signal from the CCD or CMOS is converted and processed by the camera; the various different techniques employed by the camera manufacturers to reduce the apparent noise in the image; and the video codec used in the recording; all influence the way the noise is displayed (the "noise signature"). Some cameras display the noise in dark areas. Some display noise over the entire image. Some display the noise as a fine grain. Some display the noise as blocks. Of course what equates to an "attractive" noise signature is pretty much subjective. Personally I prefer something that looks more grainy but organic ("film-like"), than too clean but blocky ("electronic"). Again these are my subjective terms, and reflect my preference, but not necessarily anyone elses. On the general scale of things the F330/350 are fairly noisy cameras in the shadows, but the gently granular quality of the noise combined with the 35mbit XDCAM HD codec looks really nice (in my opinion). I guess only time will tell whether the XDCAM EX will look more like the F330/350 or the V1... __________________ Alex

May 25th, 2007, 11:37 AM	#227
Louis Mostert Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East London, South Africa Posts: 31	Alex, Why is the noise signature so important? (I'm a noob) Thanks

May 25th, 2007, 11:56 AM	#229
Louis Mostert Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East London, South Africa Posts: 31	Thanks Heath How is the 1/2" F350/330 with noise?

May 25th, 2007, 01:26 PM	#233
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	Does anyone know if this camera will record proxies like the 330/350? __________________ Mark Utley

May 27th, 2007, 02:00 PM	#234
Tom Vaughan Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Los Gatos, CA Posts: 70	Can someone post a summary of what we know about the XDCAM EX camera? 3 x 1/2 " Sensors (CMOS?) XDCAM format, 35 Mb/s (or is there a chance that this will offer 4:2:2 at 50 Mb/s?) 14x Fujinon lens SxS (ExpressCard) flash memory storage - 2 cards Price - under $8K Launch date? Thanks Tom

May 27th, 2007, 02:03 PM	#235
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I don't remember seeing a 14x Fujinon lens. The lens isn't interchangable, it's fixed. Might be a Zeiss... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 27th, 2007, 03:15 PM	#237
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Here are some photos Chris Hurd took: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91612 Nothing on the lens indicating who made it. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 27th, 2007, 07:06 PM	#239
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I figured you did--when I was at the Sony NAB event, I didn't think to ask about the Fujinon, or look, for that matter! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 28th, 2007, 02:43 AM	#240
Steve Connor Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 383	It is certainly a Fujinon lens, designed specifically for the EX.