Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light

Tom Van den Berghe · October 27th, 2022, 01:08 AM

thx for the great info you gave here! I will keep the A7IV in mind for my decision.
Have several camcorders in mind now so time will tell.

David Peterson · November 1st, 2022, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Pfeifer

I was wondering how these two matched up in low light. A lot of people online complain that the low light on the FS5M2 is not good - which suprises me since the sensor is so large. I know it also depends on the glass you put in front of it. Maybe people use the wrong settings and complain about the results? I know these are two completely different cameras. Thanks.

The FS5mk2 has an ollllldddd sensor in it, as often the sensor tech (and the processing too of it) matters far more than simply the size of the sensor!

I would for instance greatly prefer the 4/3"-ish sized sensor in the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K than the so called "full frame" sensor inside the Canon 5Dmk2!

Bigger is not always better.

Tom Van den Berghe · June 29th, 2023, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

Compared to a camera with a full-frame sensor, the Z280 has the equivalent of a 30mm to 515mm f/1.9 lens. You will never find an such a lens in the real world. And if you did, it would be so massive you couldn't shoot with it, and it would cost so much that you couldn't afford it.

Its worth noting that the Z280 lens also has auto-focus and servo zoom.

Now I have the sony FX6 and A7IV I was thinking about a telelens. I thought I needed a 500mm full frame lens to match the reach of the Z280 (fully zoomed in)

But I watched your master class and that was confusing for me. See attached image.
18.2mm - 309mm super 35mm equivalent?

Christopher shot with a tamron 18-300 mm F/3.5-6.3 (APSC) lens so this lens would have the same reach as the Z280? (of course in crop mode)

I'm just trying to understand this correctly.

Doug Jensen · June 29th, 2023, 01:25 PM

Hi Tom, I'd be more than happy to shed some light but I don't think I understand your question.

The FX6 is a full-frame camera, therefore it requires a telephoto lens that is approximately 500mm to match the reach of the Z280.

I don't know anything about the Tamron 18-300 mm F/3.5-6.3 (APSC) lens, but if it is an APSC lens (also known as Super35) it is an inappropriate lens for the FX6 unless you intend on shooting only in HD. There is no 4K crop mode so the FX6 is always a FF camea when shooting 4K, and therefore requires a FF lens -- the Tarmron is not a FF lens.

Tom Van den Berghe · June 30th, 2023, 12:00 AM

hi Doug,

515mm full frame equivalent and 309mm super 35mm equivalent for telephoto on Z280.

When I would buy a 500mm full frame lens (for example the tamron 150-500mm) then you can have it in crop mode -> 750mm in super35. (yes, Super35mm on FX6 is always HD)

So It's strange to me that the super35equivalent in your "slide" is shorter than the full frame equivalent.
I thought it would the opposite.

Doug Jensen · June 30th, 2023, 06:36 AM

Here's another way of saying it, all four of these combinations would have a similar field of view:

1) Z280 with stock lens zoomed to 91mm
2) A full-frame camera with a 515mm lens
3) A full-frame camera running in Super35 crop mode with a 309mm lens
4) A Super35mm camera with a 309mm lens

If you put all four of those combinations on tripods next to each other, they would result in a similar field of view on each one.

Tom Van den Berghe · June 30th, 2023, 08:52 AM

thx Doug!

2 = 515mm full frame lens
3 and 4 are both a apsc (super 35mm) 309mm lens

I could also buy a 400mm full frame lens and use that in crop mode so I would have a 600mm reach.
(but only in HD mode on fx6)

that's right?

Doug Jensen · June 30th, 2023, 11:31 AM

Tom, you now own a couple of FF cameras so don't even think about S35/APSC lenses anymore. Waste of money.

If you need a telephoto lens, I highly recommend the FF Sony 200-600mm. It is a fantastic lens that ought to cost a lot more for what it can do. It is literally on my FX6 99.9% of the time.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801

This is the last telephoto you will ever need to buy. And if you need even more reach, there is a matched 2.0x teleconverter that I can also highly recommend.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801

Tom Van den Berghe · July 1st, 2023, 01:19 AM

yes, the FE 200-600mm looks great. Heavy so I have use some 15mm rods etc. (bought this years ago so this could come in handy)

But I have to be carefull because it's just starting at 200mm at the wide end and maybe that's not wide enough for shooting some stage shows etc. When I have to stand too close to the stage.

On the other hand there also the new sigma FE 60-600mm. More expensive, bit heavier and extends when zooming. But 60mm vs 200mm on the wide is a big difference.

I saw a video comparing these 2 lenses and sharpness was about equal.

Really appreciate your help Doug!

Doug Jensen · July 1st, 2023, 07:42 AM

Yeah, for indoor use I couldn't recommend the 200-600mm. You're right that the 200mm won't be wide enough, but beyond that, the f/6.3 max aperture means you'll need a lot of light. That can be somewhat offset by using the HIGH sensitivity mode of the FX6, but it won't be ideal.

A better option indoors would be the f/4.5 Sony 100-400mm. Sony loaned me one a couple of years ago for about a month and I found it to be nice lens. Ultimately I decided the 200-600mm fit my needs better so I didn't buy one.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1333230-REG/sony_sel100400gm_fe_100_400mm_f_4_5_5_6_gm.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801

I agree that the Sigma 60-600mm interesting. In fact, I mention that particular lens in my recent Wildlife Cinematography Master Class as a possible option for people who use Panasonic cameras with an L-mount. That is really the only telephoto option for those cameras. But I have never seen one nor used it myself. I wish I knew someone at Sigma so I could get a demo. If you decide to get one, do come back and share your thoughts. I would particularly be interested to see how AF performs on the Sigma vs. the Sonys. Once you've got a taste for how powerful Sony's subject tracking mode works it is hard to imagine shooting without it.

Tom Van den Berghe · July 2nd, 2023, 01:20 AM

I'm always wondering how a FX6 With a slow F6.3 on the long end (with high sensity) compares with a sony Z280. The Z280 goes in tele to about F2.8.

I can't find that answer. I now you have both. The Z280 is from 2018 and very difficult to find second hand (in Europe)

I know the Z280 is better suited for shooting events, stage shows but I have always a second wide angle cam.

Buying a full frame telephoto lens will be much cheaper then a Z280.

October 27th, 2022, 01:08 AM	#16
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light thx for the great info you gave here! I will keep the A7IV in mind for my decision. Have several camcorders in mind now so time will tell.

June 29th, 2023, 01:25 PM	#19
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,440	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light Hi Tom, I'd be more than happy to shed some light but I don't think I understand your question. The FX6 is a full-frame camera, therefore it requires a telephoto lens that is approximately 500mm to match the reach of the Z280. I don't know anything about the Tamron 18-300 mm F/3.5-6.3 (APSC) lens, but if it is an APSC lens (also known as Super35) it is an inappropriate lens for the FX6 unless you intend on shooting only in HD. There is no 4K crop mode so the FX6 is always a FF camea when shooting 4K, and therefore requires a FF lens -- the Tarmron is not a FF lens. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

June 30th, 2023, 12:00 AM	#20
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light hi Doug, 515mm full frame equivalent and 309mm super 35mm equivalent for telephoto on Z280. When I would buy a 500mm full frame lens (for example the tamron 150-500mm) then you can have it in crop mode -> 750mm in super35. (yes, Super35mm on FX6 is always HD) So It's strange to me that the super35equivalent in your "slide" is shorter than the full frame equivalent. I thought it would the opposite.

June 30th, 2023, 06:36 AM	#21
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,440	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light Here's another way of saying it, all four of these combinations would have a similar field of view: 1) Z280 with stock lens zoomed to 91mm 2) A full-frame camera with a 515mm lens 3) A full-frame camera running in Super35 crop mode with a 309mm lens 4) A Super35mm camera with a 309mm lens If you put all four of those combinations on tripods next to each other, they would result in a similar field of view on each one. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

June 30th, 2023, 08:52 AM	#22
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light thx Doug! 2 = 515mm full frame lens 3 and 4 are both a apsc (super 35mm) 309mm lens I could also buy a 400mm full frame lens and use that in crop mode so I would have a 600mm reach. (but only in HD mode on fx6) that's right?

June 30th, 2023, 11:31 AM	#23
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,440	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light Tom, you now own a couple of FF cameras so don't even think about S35/APSC lenses anymore. Waste of money. If you need a telephoto lens, I highly recommend the FF Sony 200-600mm. It is a fantastic lens that ought to cost a lot more for what it can do. It is literally on my FX6 99.9% of the time. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801 This is the last telephoto you will ever need to buy. And if you need even more reach, there is a matched 2.0x teleconverter that I can also highly recommend. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...2855/KBID/3801 __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

July 1st, 2023, 01:19 AM	#24
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light yes, the FE 200-600mm looks great. Heavy so I have use some 15mm rods etc. (bought this years ago so this could come in handy) But I have to be carefull because it's just starting at 200mm at the wide end and maybe that's not wide enough for shooting some stage shows etc. When I have to stand too close to the stage. On the other hand there also the new sigma FE 60-600mm. More expensive, bit heavier and extends when zooming. But 60mm vs 200mm on the wide is a big difference. I saw a video comparing these 2 lenses and sharpness was about equal. Really appreciate your help Doug!

July 1st, 2023, 07:42 AM	#25
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,440	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light Yeah, for indoor use I couldn't recommend the 200-600mm. You're right that the 200mm won't be wide enough, but beyond that, the f/6.3 max aperture means you'll need a lot of light. That can be somewhat offset by using the HIGH sensitivity mode of the FX6, but it won't be ideal. A better option indoors would be the f/4.5 Sony 100-400mm. Sony loaned me one a couple of years ago for about a month and I found it to be nice lens. Ultimately I decided the 200-600mm fit my needs better so I didn't buy one. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1333230-REG/sony_sel100400gm_fe_100_400mm_f_4_5_5_6_gm.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801 I agree that the Sigma 60-600mm interesting. In fact, I mention that particular lens in my recent Wildlife Cinematography Master Class as a possible option for people who use Panasonic cameras with an L-mount. That is really the only telephoto option for those cameras. But I have never seen one nor used it myself. I wish I knew someone at Sigma so I could get a demo. If you decide to get one, do come back and share your thoughts. I would particularly be interested to see how AF performs on the Sigma vs. the Sonys. Once you've got a taste for how powerful Sony's subject tracking mode works it is hard to imagine shooting without it. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

July 2nd, 2023, 01:20 AM	#26
Tom Van den Berghe Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: BELGIUM Posts: 401	Re: Z280 versus FS5M2 in low light I'm always wondering how a FX6 With a slow F6.3 on the long end (with high sensity) compares with a sony Z280. The Z280 goes in tele to about F2.8. I can't find that answer. I now you have both. The Z280 is from 2018 and very difficult to find second hand (in Europe) I know the Z280 is better suited for shooting events, stage shows but I have always a second wide angle cam. Buying a full frame telephoto lens will be much cheaper then a Z280.