Sony Z190 - Impossible Huge Flaw?

[Leslie Wand]

chris,

mainly used fuji too, but got good deals on sony, which, by and large, were reasonably reliable, but ampex, oi vey!!!

btw. how's the navy doco progressing?

[Doug Jensen]

Fuji for me too. I'd let clients provide either brand if they wanted to bring their own tape stock, but nothing else was allowed into my camera. I always carried at least one extra box of 10 all the time.

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

Oh, I know they listen. They even sent me to Japan once to consult with the engineers and I have participated in several one-on-one private sessions in the back halls of NAB. This year I brought a two-page proposal for a new camera and gave it to the Japanese engineers at NAB and within 24 hours I already had follow-up questions from people who were back in Tokyo. I don't know what has become of it since then, but I know they listened and it will have an impact one way or another even if they don't build the exact camera I have proposed.

All, I'm saying is this is not the place to rant and rave because it looks silly and Sony isn't reading anything here. If you want to effect changes, I wish you luck, but I highly doubt this is the place or you have used the right tone. BTW, of all the things I would want to change on the Z190, your idea is far down on my list of priorities. How about being limited to only 60 fps in HD? That is a big mistake and something I started lobbying to get changed clear last April. But in the mean time, you don't see me calling it "disgusting".

You are right Doug, the tone of my original post WAS too harsh. I reacted with too much initial anger at first. So, yes, I do take back some of my emotion on those first posts. I have since "cooled down" about this. ;-)

I still feel very strongly about the Z190 needs dual writing in 4k like so many cheaper cameras do. Sony tells us how great this reliability is and I believe them. Just dont allow it in 1080 and block it in 4k.

I will (calmly) tell this to other buyers and Sony reps over and over again for a long time in the hopes that Sony will eventually have a change of heart. Maybe I can spark more and more people to also pressure Sony to lift the 4k dual card writing backup embargo!

I would love to ask Sony for higher than 60p frame rates but I feel I might be getting greedy! (besides,...my super cheap Sony NX80 can do 120p!)

I also want the standard 100mbp/s 4k option added. I shoot long events sometimes and 100mbps would be better than 150mbps for that talking head podium stuff.

I do bitch at Sony sometimes but God knows I love them!

[Noa Put]

I still feel very strongly about the Z190 need dual writing in 4k

You said in your first post you needed this for reliability but that is not necessary as Doug uses cards that never fail, once we know which cards you can use that second slot for longer recordingtimes.

[Doug Jensen]

I have never had an SD, XQD, SxS, or AXS card fail on any Sony camera at any time. Unless of course, I was purposely using a "Not Recommended Media" card for testing purposes.

[Cliff Totten]

Christopher Young - No,...not on the FS7. I'm less concerned about XQD cards or even Sony SxS card cameras than I am about SD cards. My rant is mostly about SD card dual writing which makes the use of "consumer" SD cards just as reliable or even more reliable than using single professional media.

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I have never had an SD, XQD, SxS, or AXS card fail on any Sony camera at any time. Unless of course, I was purposely using a "Not Recommended Media" card for testing purposes.

I buy the best SD cards I can get, which I believe are SanDisk and Sony SD cards. I maintain and do memory cell inspection checks every now and then to get more peace of mind. To this day, I have never lost data on an SD card....yet. I DO know friends that have been very unlucky with SD cards. About 4 years ago, a friend had a corrupt SD card and he sent it off to a service to restore the data and they couldn't do it!

With Sony's touted dual writing feature, it would be rare to lose an SD card memory controller or memory cell and EXTREMELY rare to have TWO cards go bad at the exact same time.

Statistically, dual SD card writing could be THE most "corrupt-free" recording technique that anybody could ask for...even safer than single XQD or single SXS!

CT

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I have never had an SD, XQD, SxS, or AXS card fail on any Sony camera at any time. Unless of course, I was purposely using a "Not Recommended Media" card for testing purposes.

That means you got lucky, just like I have been untill now. There are enough reports from users that have had issues with corrupt data on recommended media, just follow some facebook groups and there is plenty of horrorstories that are told.

I also knew you couldn't name a card that doesn't fail because it doesn't exist, just because you never had a problem doesn't mean it can't happen, the safest way is still to connect a external recorder because even with dual cards you can have corrupt data if the camera locks up, a external recorder can still save the file so you don't have to spend a lot of money to get your data recovered from your sd cards.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Statistically, dual SD card writing could be THE most "corrupt-free" recording technique that anybody could ask for...even safer than single XQD or single SXS!

Not if your camera locks up during record, if the file can't be closed then both cards are affected, only a external recorder will save your data in such an event, in any other case you have to send the data to a specialised recovery company.

[Doug Jensen]

If you want to wear a belt and suspenders, that is your right. But I feel totally confident recording on a single card. As for the horror stories of cards failing, when you look into some of those stories closer it is often a case of operator error, using cheap cards, using fake cards, or some other factor that isn't going to affect me. Not all stories -- but most of the ones I have actually investigated. And I hvae tried to look into some of them for more info. Don't accept those stories of failures at face value. My track record of 100% perfection on thousands of shoots with memory cards going back to 2007 is proof enough for me. If you want 100% protection. Sit at home and don't shoot anything.

It's not that I can't name cards that don't fail, I don't want to take the time to give you an inventory of my stash.

BTW, Betacam failed on me at least once a year or more.

Got work to do, so I will leave this conversation for now. Bye.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

If you want to wear a belt and suspenders, that is your right.

This made my morning.

[Cliff Totten]

That IS awesome, Doug, you have now given me something completely NEW for me to be obsessively paranoid about!!

Dang it!...I'm going to be standing in front of my tripod at my next gig thinking:.....

"Crap....what if my belt fails and my pants fall down in front of this customer!!!"

Great....ugg...it's off to WalMart now. I need to buy some "work" suspenders. Can I charge this on my company card under equipment costs???

CT

lol...that WAS funny!

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

If you want to wear a belt and suspenders, that is your right..

If you want to wear a belt only, that's also your right if you like to get caugth with your pants down, maybe never but who knows sooner or later.

Also, I wasn't talking about cheap and fake cards if you read my comment again but cards recommended by the manufacturer.

It's not that I can't name cards that don't fail, I don't want to take the time to give you an inventory of my stash.

You don't have to waste your time because you can't name a card that never ever fails because it doesn't exist.

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Leslie Wand

chris,

mainly used fuji too, but got good deals on sony, which, by and large, were reasonably reliable, but ampex, oi vey!!!

btw. how's the navy doco progressing?

Ampex and those shocking 3M Beta tapes. Too slippery!

EP #6 finishing in post. Waiting for the govt to cough up more $$$s for 7 and 8. That probably won't happen until after the next election, May '19?? Who knows. The whole thing has been in fits and starts funding wise.

Chris Young

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

Fuji for me too. I always carried at least one extra box of 10 all the time.

Same here!

Chris Young