Z190?

[Gerald Webb]

Hi all,
Has anyone upgraded to the Z190 yet?
Would love to see low light comparisons to the 160/180.

[Doug Jensen]

Nobody has one. The Z190 is still a month or two away from shipping.

[Leslie Wand]

so, while we're talking about 'new' cameras...

my ex1 is as good as ever, but getting up in the hours dept. and, as i'm getting older, feeling rather heavy when handheld.

i was thinking maybe z80 or 90? not too concerned about 4k.

anyone any experience with comparison?

[Simon Denny]

I've just purchased the Z90 and these were my reasons over the NX80

SDI out
XAVC-L 10bit: 4:2:2

The Z90 is fantastic and I highly recommend this, I've has so many cameras over the years and at the peak was my Sony PMW500, then followed all the DSLR, Mirrorless mob, all this time I dreamed of a small Camcorder with these specs in a small unit and here it is.

I just want to add, I don't shoot 4K although all my current cameras can, good HD for now is what I need.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Leslie Wand

my ex1 is as good as ever, but getting up in the hours dept. and, as i'm getting older, feeling rather heavy when handheld.

If you're coming from an EX1 and you really appreciate all the XDCAM features and functions it provides, I would recommend waiting for the Z190 or maybe a Z280 if you can justify the extra cost. I love my Z90 and it is a great little camera, but the Z190 beats it hands down in every way you want to compare them except size.

Also, I will add, that in my opinion it is a mistake to not to be shooting most things in 4K today whether you edit and deliver in 4K or not. To act as if 4K is not even on one's radar is being very short sighted.

[Simon Denny]

Yes the Z190 with that 25x lens looks great along with other features, I would have gone this myself however at 6K in Aussie dollars v 4K for the z90 I couldn't justify this at this time.

[Simon Denny]

Just want to add, you have to purchase a battery charger separately (not included in the box) and of course batteries. As I have now moved back to Sony the setup cost again is a contributing factor.

[Leslie Wand]

most certainly the $4k vs $6k is a factor. and i haven't need a x25 lens for many years (though it would be nice to have).

i would probably shoot my talking heads in 4k so that i could easily reframe on the timeline, but since i've never been asked for 4k, nor wish to invest personally in the hardware that would give me what i get in hd in realtime, i'm somewhat loathed to go down that path...

and finally, i loved this -

You Don't See in 4K - YouTube

[Cliff Totten]

The Z190 is very much on my radar but im very concerned about those three 1/3 sensors and their density and dim output.

I haven seen very much Z280 yet but from the small amount that I have seen, it's made me cringe. So far, I have only seen Z280 footage that shows massive amounts of noise reductuin even at 0db. If you look closely at moving edges, you see the classic temporal "edge tearing" problems and "spekled edges" too. The noise reduction is so high that it scrubs fine detail pretty agressively. I'm a massive Sony zombie fanboy but even I have to admit that I'm a bit worried about the Z280. Yes, I need to see more but already compared to the Z90, I can see the Z90's images have much finer detail and less noise reduction at just about every db. ( no comparison in ergonomics and usability)

I dont know how this will affect the Z190 with even smaller sensors. Again, I'm judging this all on a small amount of 4k samples on YouTube. I really want to be wrong about this as the ergonomics of these two new cameras are PERFECT for me. However, I my opinion, I cant choose a camera, no matter how good its usability is if it's final image quality is not worth it.

The jury is still out and Im not judging either of these cameras right now untill I see allot more material from them. For all of you looking at the 4k image quality, look closely for high amounts of noise reduction processing. Look at detail softening, edge shearing and speckling arround moving edges im particular. Look for the "water color" effect.

Lets all hope that everything is OK and that I'm completely wrong. I absolutely WANT to be wrong on this.

[Gerald Webb]

My mistake, looking closer at the retailers webpage it does say, expected late August.
If the Z190 has better low light than my 160, I am there.
I used to think the 160 was a pretty solid performer in the dark but compared it the other night to the GH5S on a static scene and as expected it was a massive difference.
If sensor tech has come that far in the last four years Im hoping for the Z190 to be amazing.

[Doug Jensen]

I'll be surprised if we see actually see the Z190 before September. But the wait will be rewarded.

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Gerald Webb

My mistake, looking closer at the retailers webpage it does say, expected late August.
If the Z190 has better low light than my 160, I am there.
I used to think the 160 was a pretty solid performer in the dark but compared it the other night to the GH5S on a static scene and as expected it was a massive difference.
If sensor tech has come that far in the last four years Im hoping for the Z190 to be amazing.

Yeah, that Panasonic GH5-S uses a pretty damn cutting edge Sony IMX299 EXMOR BSI sensor. Those photosites are larger than 4+ microns. Its got a really clean 10bit VLog and dual ISO/0db mapping....recording to a 400mbps all-intra internal codec and a read-out clocked faster than a Sony FS7....no real rolling shutter. Scary!

Its funny how Sony Semiconductor is really not affraid to sell their best pattented sensors to other companies that compete with Sony Imaging Company.

And now BlackMagic is buying that IMX299 for their pocket 4k camera that records 12bit raw...for $1300!!!

Things are getting crazy and Sony Semiconductor is causing it. They just want to sell as many sensors as they can and they dont care anymore if Sony Imaging gets screwed because of it. Lol.

[Doug Jensen]

I hope you're not suggesting that the GH5 or BM pocket camera are valid substitutes for the Z190? Those are totally different cameras intended to be used for totally different purposes. It's like telling us all about a great pair of pliers when what I really need is a screwdriver. Sony builds cameras for people who have work to get done, not pixel peepers.

[Leslie Wand]

well put doug...

[Cliff Totten]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I hope you're not suggesting that the GH5 or BM pocket camera are valid substitutes for the Z190? Those are totally different cameras intended to be used for totally different purposes. It's like telling us all about a great pair of pliers when what I really need is a screwdriver. Sony builds cameras for people who have work to get done, not pixel peepers.

Absolutely right. I am not suggesting these cameras can replace each other as tools. I own the GH5 and NX80 myself and use my NX80 for event work, live webcasting and run and gun work...especially when I dont want "attention". My GH5 is for my trips to YellowStone, Yosimite and Glacier National Park and higher quality 10bit scenic landscapes and wildlife. (My lenses span 16mm wide to 800mm tele in 35mm equililant) Places I dont want to lug my FS7 to on hikes.

Yes,...two cameras that are on the oposite ends of the camera/camcorder industry spectrum. As you know Doug, I have my hands and feet in ALL the styles of shooting tools...

ENG - EX1, Z150, X70 and NX80
Cine S35 - FS7 and FS700R
Hybrid - GH5 and A7S-II

I appreciate all of them and they cant replace each other as tools.

CT