X180 lens issue

Paul Anderegg · June 26th, 2015, 08:37 PM

Here is a demonstration of the focus shift/twittering.......I think twitter is a good word for what it is doing.
I looked to Jesus for help demonstrating the problem. :)

Make sure you watch in 1080p60 for maximum flickerosity.

Paul Anderegg · June 26th, 2015, 09:44 PM

I hope that this clip demonstrates that I am not just ultra picky when it comes t the gear I buy, but can't accept a professional broadcast device that behaves in this manner, or like the X200. These cameras are not suitable for EFP in my professional opinion. Issues like the clip above would NEVER be accepted by a client paying money for quality footage.

Paul

Leslie Wand · June 26th, 2015, 10:50 PM

having followed your trials and tribulations i can fully understand, and sympathize, with your frustration and anger...

it appears everyone connected with 'prosumer' equipment is rushing to get units out the door at such a pace that the 'pro' aspect is pretty much in the realms of hype rather than practicality.

thankfully i'm pretty much out of the broadcast area these days, but i too would certainly be raising a fuss with what you've experienced. unfortunately i don't think anyone at sony is particularly concerned or worried by such problems / bugs just as long as the shelves are cleared before the next model is all to soon released...

Paul Anderegg · June 26th, 2015, 11:47 PM

I will say this for Sony. Besides the problems which mostly seem to be f/w related or limited, the hardware and functionality is still above and beyond the competition. I couldn't' imagine replacing my X180 with a Panasonic or JVC equivalent.

Paul

Leslie Wand · June 27th, 2015, 12:32 AM

i would also agree with you on that observation too.

my ex1 serves me as well as its predecessor, the z5. solid, robust and reliable...

Jack Zhang · June 27th, 2015, 12:44 AM

EX1R has been reliable at live events as well for 3 years, only recently has the only major issue been the LCD screen detection switch, but none of the critical electronics have failed, and I bought REFURB at time of purchase!

Wacharapong Chiowanich · June 27th, 2015, 01:37 AM

I don't know what's been wrong with Sony lately. On their cheap consumer gear such as DSLRs, mirrorless cams etc. there have been significant improvements regarding the AF or focus aid systems resulting in faster, more accurate focus with less hunting, overshooting-and-correcting, or pulsating (twittering in Paul's speak) and other anomalies. While on their more expensive or professional gear things have gone backwards in focus/zoom performance and reliability. I remember my Sony FX1 (Z1) HDV cam's focus and zooming were totally reliable in both AF and full servo MF modes with no end stops. Then I had the EX1R with its hybrid lens setup, that operated reliably in all focus modes including the full manual with hard stops. The AF may have been rather slow but that's understandable given the complexity of the hybrid servo lens design. Then these newer, reliability-challenged cameras. Fortunately for me I only works with small Sony handycams and cellphones nowadays!

Jack Zhang · June 27th, 2015, 03:13 AM

I still have my EX1R. 1080p 60p came too late for me to consider it in that form factor. I'm skipping straight to 1'' type 4K 60p if and when it comes.

Paul Anderegg · June 30th, 2015, 05:13 PM

Just got off the phone with a not very friendly Sony tech support person. He didn't even want to see the video clip. Said there is no adjustments that can be made to the back-focus, but said to send it in so they can look it over.

Anyone have any idea how long it takes to get a camera back once you send it in? :(

Paul

Rob Hargreaves · July 1st, 2015, 01:56 AM

I think it differs by country and region, but at least 1 week, possibly longer if parts are needed which they don't have in stock..
Ask for a loaner unit so you can carry on working.
Sony UK are reasonably good...not sure about the US (and different regions)!

Jack Zhang · July 1st, 2015, 04:59 PM

In my city we have a Sony Authorized service center which are the same people which helped IFHT make the "How to be a Filmmaker" short. I sent my EX1R to get fixed there.

Happy to report the camera is cleaned and no LCD issues.

Paul Anderegg · July 6th, 2015, 06:23 AM

Here is another clip of the problem at the worse I have ever experienced it. That is a huge focus shift from just lightly touching the zoom rocker! First half in AF, second half in full manual. :(

Leslie Wand · July 6th, 2015, 06:56 AM

that's absolutely appalling. sony should be ashamed of selling the camera ;-(

Dave Sperling · July 6th, 2015, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leslie Wand

that's absolutely appalling. sony should be ashamed of selling the camera ;-(

I'd agree if I could replicate the zoom rocker problem on my X180, but so far (I've had it for 8 months) I've never experienced that kind of softening from using the zoom rocker. Since my camera doesn't exhibit the problem, my guess is that we should be blaming maintenance/service for not being able to repair the issue. I'd bring the camera in with a copy of the video so they can clearly see the problem.

Rob Hargreaves · July 7th, 2015, 03:18 AM

I've just tried to replicate this too, with the X180 at 18db in manual focus mode and very slow zooms and/or just nudging the zoom rocker and it does not loose focus or shift/twitter.
Maybe you could save and upload your full X180 camera settings (All File save) and I can load them and see if I can replicate it.
I was going to add this potential focus problem as a Con of my upcoming review of this camera, but I'll hold off and maybe add it as an update later if it's confirmed with more than just your camera.

June 26th, 2015, 08:37 PM	#31
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 lens issue Here is a demonstration of the focus shift/twittering.......I think twitter is a good word for what it is doing. I looked to Jesus for help demonstrating the problem. :) Make sure you watch in 1080p60 for maximum flickerosity. YouTube (Short URL)

June 26th, 2015, 09:44 PM	#32
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 lens issue I hope that this clip demonstrates that I am not just ultra picky when it comes t the gear I buy, but can't accept a professional broadcast device that behaves in this manner, or like the X200. These cameras are not suitable for EFP in my professional opinion. Issues like the clip above would NEVER be accepted by a client paying money for quality footage. Paul

June 26th, 2015, 10:50 PM	#33
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: X180 lens issue having followed your trials and tribulations i can fully understand, and sympathize, with your frustration and anger... it appears everyone connected with 'prosumer' equipment is rushing to get units out the door at such a pace that the 'pro' aspect is pretty much in the realms of hype rather than practicality. thankfully i'm pretty much out of the broadcast area these days, but i too would certainly be raising a fuss with what you've experienced. unfortunately i don't think anyone at sony is particularly concerned or worried by such problems / bugs just as long as the shelves are cleared before the next model is all to soon released... __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

June 26th, 2015, 11:47 PM	#34
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 lens issue I will say this for Sony. Besides the problems which mostly seem to be f/w related or limited, the hardware and functionality is still above and beyond the competition. I couldn't' imagine replacing my X180 with a Panasonic or JVC equivalent. Paul

June 27th, 2015, 12:32 AM	#35
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: X180 lens issue i would also agree with you on that observation too. my ex1 serves me as well as its predecessor, the z5. solid, robust and reliable... __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

June 27th, 2015, 12:44 AM	#36
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: X180 lens issue EX1R has been reliable at live events as well for 3 years, only recently has the only major issue been the LCD screen detection switch, but none of the critical electronics have failed, and I bought REFURB at time of purchase!

June 27th, 2015, 01:37 AM	#37
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	Re: X180 lens issue I don't know what's been wrong with Sony lately. On their cheap consumer gear such as DSLRs, mirrorless cams etc. there have been significant improvements regarding the AF or focus aid systems resulting in faster, more accurate focus with less hunting, overshooting-and-correcting, or pulsating (twittering in Paul's speak) and other anomalies. While on their more expensive or professional gear things have gone backwards in focus/zoom performance and reliability. I remember my Sony FX1 (Z1) HDV cam's focus and zooming were totally reliable in both AF and full servo MF modes with no end stops. Then I had the EX1R with its hybrid lens setup, that operated reliably in all focus modes including the full manual with hard stops. The AF may have been rather slow but that's understandable given the complexity of the hybrid servo lens design. Then these newer, reliability-challenged cameras. Fortunately for me I only works with small Sony handycams and cellphones nowadays!

June 27th, 2015, 03:13 AM	#38
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: X180 lens issue I still have my EX1R. 1080p 60p came too late for me to consider it in that form factor. I'm skipping straight to 1'' type 4K 60p if and when it comes.

June 30th, 2015, 05:13 PM	#39
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 lens issue Just got off the phone with a not very friendly Sony tech support person. He didn't even want to see the video clip. Said there is no adjustments that can be made to the back-focus, but said to send it in so they can look it over. Anyone have any idea how long it takes to get a camera back once you send it in? :( Paul

July 1st, 2015, 01:56 AM	#40
Rob Hargreaves Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 96	Re: X180 lens issue I think it differs by country and region, but at least 1 week, possibly longer if parts are needed which they don't have in stock.. Ask for a loaner unit so you can carry on working. Sony UK are reasonably good...not sure about the US (and different regions)!

July 1st, 2015, 04:59 PM	#41
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: X180 lens issue In my city we have a Sony Authorized service center which are the same people which helped IFHT make the "How to be a Filmmaker" short. I sent my EX1R to get fixed there. Happy to report the camera is cleaned and no LCD issues.

July 6th, 2015, 06:23 AM	#42
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: X180 lens issue Here is another clip of the problem at the worse I have ever experienced it. That is a huge focus shift from just lightly touching the zoom rocker! First half in AF, second half in full manual. :( YouTube (Short URL)

July 6th, 2015, 06:56 AM	#43
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: X180 lens issue that's absolutely appalling. sony should be ashamed of selling the camera ;-( __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

July 7th, 2015, 03:18 AM	#45
Rob Hargreaves Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: London Posts: 96	Re: X180 lens issue I've just tried to replicate this too, with the X180 at 18db in manual focus mode and very slow zooms and/or just nudging the zoom rocker and it does not loose focus or shift/twitter. Maybe you could save and upload your full X180 camera settings (All File save) and I can load them and see if I can replicate it. I was going to add this potential focus problem as a Con of my upcoming review of this camera, but I'll hold off and maybe add it as an update later if it's confirmed with more than just your camera.