SxS copy issue at DVinfo.net

Bill Ward · July 25th, 2013, 08:20 PM

Shot two cards today, one on the EX-3, one on the F3. Both BPAV folders were copied to the producer's external hard drive, then brought home and a safety copy was made.

when I went to spot check the copied BPAVS, the EX-3 card popped right up in the Content Browser. The F3 card showed up in the browser file tree, but no clips populated. In AVID, the EX-3 card would immediately load via AMA, but AMA couldn't find any clips to link to on the F3 copy.

Hooked up the original F3 card, and Content Browser was able to see it just fine, and made the .mxf export in good order. I was able import the .mxf clips into AVID with no issue. However; AVID could not populate any AMA clips off the original card, either.

The producer was using a mac and a Toshiba external drive, which she had to load some mac utility that came with the drive in order to be able to write to the Toshiba. She was able to copy both SxS cards and an SDHC card to her drive, but did not have any way to check the video.

Any idea what might be going on with the F3 card copy? The BPAV shows a file size exactly the same between the master card and the copied BPAV folder, and all the different SxS readers I experimented with all say there are the expected 30 gigs of material on the matching BPAV foldes...they just can't access it unless I use the Content Browser and only the original card--no copies.

Bill Ward · July 26th, 2013, 06:49 AM

One ray of sunshine: after cycling the AMA import settings, I was able to retrieve the files off the SxS card via AMA. However; the copied BPAV folder is still not communicating with either AMA nor the Content Browser.

I did notice that while the gross size of the original/copied BPAV is the same, as are the numbers of files and folders, there is a total difference of about 10,000 bytes between the two..,the copied folder being slightly smaller. I have noticed that slight difference before, without it affecting the ability to read the clips.

Bill Ward · July 29th, 2013, 10:17 AM

OK...it gets a bit stranger.

I take another 64 gig card, shoot some clips on the F3 and copy the BPAV through my SBAC-20 onto the desktop. Content Browser will not open the clips from the copy, but opens them just fine from the SxS card. I use the "copy all" function in content browser to make a copy of the BPAV folder. Lo and behold, Content Browser can read this copy. Then, I make a copy via desktop drag-and-drop of the successfully copied BPAV.

No joy. Content Browser sees it, but won't open it. I do a CRC-check copy (which takes much longer) and CB opens it just fine. I desktop copy the CRC-checked copy, and again, no joy.

Here's what we have more or less empirically determined:

1. Unless 2 of three 64 gig G1A Sony SxS cards have suddenly developed an issue, it's not the cards at fault. The 64-gig in the EX-3 copied just fine.
2. There may be an issue with the way my Windows 7 desktop copies BPAV folders. Or there may not. The EX-3 copies worked just fine.
3. There may be an issue with the way the F3 is recording the files, although I'm not sure what that would be. The card itself downloads just fine. A copy directly from the card does not. A Content Browser generated copy works just fine. A desktop copy of the CB BPAV does not.

So my best guess would be that the F3 may be the culprit. But what could it be doing that allows normal operation, EXCEPT for any drag-and-drop BPAV folder copy? I'm stumped.

Jack Zhang · July 29th, 2013, 07:17 PM

The newer F3 firmwares needed a new XDCAM Browser version back in the day. They are indeed different from EX3 BPAV folders because F3 footage is not compatible with the older Clip Browser 2.6.

That may be part of the issue. Make sure to write-protect your cards before transferring too.

Bill Ward · July 30th, 2013, 08:55 AM

AFAIK, I've got the latest F3 firmware, and the newest Content Browser. It is interesting, though: my old Clipbrowser could see the BPAV in question on the F3 card just fine, but when I did the Content Browser "copy all" version of the BPAV, the old ClipBrowser program could still see the card and tried to bring up the clips, but they populated as empty clip boxes with a big black X inside them.

I'm hoping that the lack of profanity-laced e-mails from the producer means they were able to access the media in good order on their end.

Chris Medico · July 30th, 2013, 02:47 PM

I discovered a bug and reported it to Sony a year ago. I use AMA on Avid and if I copied a card using the clip browser AMA wouldn't recognize it but if I copied the BPAV folder directly through windows explorer it worked fine. It looks like clip browser does not do a direct copy of the metadata files but it creates new ones when it copies the media files. The metadata files it creates are not compatible with AMA. At least not the version of AMA I'm running on my system.

So I started to do direct copies of the folders and Avid is much happier with my media.

Bill Ward · July 30th, 2013, 07:25 PM

See...that's funny, because I'm having almost the opposite problem--Windows 7 desktop copies are the issue, not the Content Browser copies. But only on F3 video, not EX-3.

Go figure.

Chris Medico · July 30th, 2013, 09:31 PM

Now that is quite odd.

Bill Ward · August 7th, 2013, 08:59 AM

So the good news is that the producer was able to download the media off her drag and drop copy without issue.

the bad news is I still have no idea why my drag and drop operations with the EX-3 work just fine, but the F3 is a no go.

July 25th, 2013, 08:20 PM	#1
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	SxS copy issue Shot two cards today, one on the EX-3, one on the F3. Both BPAV folders were copied to the producer's external hard drive, then brought home and a safety copy was made. when I went to spot check the copied BPAVS, the EX-3 card popped right up in the Content Browser. The F3 card showed up in the browser file tree, but no clips populated. In AVID, the EX-3 card would immediately load via AMA, but AMA couldn't find any clips to link to on the F3 copy. Hooked up the original F3 card, and Content Browser was able to see it just fine, and made the .mxf export in good order. I was able import the .mxf clips into AVID with no issue. However; AVID could not populate any AMA clips off the original card, either. The producer was using a mac and a Toshiba external drive, which she had to load some mac utility that came with the drive in order to be able to write to the Toshiba. She was able to copy both SxS cards and an SDHC card to her drive, but did not have any way to check the video. Any idea what might be going on with the F3 card copy? The BPAV shows a file size exactly the same between the master card and the copied BPAV folder, and all the different SxS readers I experimented with all say there are the expected 30 gigs of material on the matching BPAV foldes...they just can't access it unless I use the Content Browser and only the original card--no copies.

July 26th, 2013, 06:49 AM	#2
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	Re: SxS copy issue One ray of sunshine: after cycling the AMA import settings, I was able to retrieve the files off the SxS card via AMA. However; the copied BPAV folder is still not communicating with either AMA nor the Content Browser. I did notice that while the gross size of the original/copied BPAV is the same, as are the numbers of files and folders, there is a total difference of about 10,000 bytes between the two..,the copied folder being slightly smaller. I have noticed that slight difference before, without it affecting the ability to read the clips.

July 29th, 2013, 10:17 AM	#3
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	Re: SxS copy issue OK...it gets a bit stranger. I take another 64 gig card, shoot some clips on the F3 and copy the BPAV through my SBAC-20 onto the desktop. Content Browser will not open the clips from the copy, but opens them just fine from the SxS card. I use the "copy all" function in content browser to make a copy of the BPAV folder. Lo and behold, Content Browser can read this copy. Then, I make a copy via desktop drag-and-drop of the successfully copied BPAV. No joy. Content Browser sees it, but won't open it. I do a CRC-check copy (which takes much longer) and CB opens it just fine. I desktop copy the CRC-checked copy, and again, no joy. Here's what we have more or less empirically determined: 1. Unless 2 of three 64 gig G1A Sony SxS cards have suddenly developed an issue, it's not the cards at fault. The 64-gig in the EX-3 copied just fine. 2. There may be an issue with the way my Windows 7 desktop copies BPAV folders. Or there may not. The EX-3 copies worked just fine. 3. There may be an issue with the way the F3 is recording the files, although I'm not sure what that would be. The card itself downloads just fine. A copy directly from the card does not. A Content Browser generated copy works just fine. A desktop copy of the CB BPAV does not. So my best guess would be that the F3 may be the culprit. But what could it be doing that allows normal operation, EXCEPT for any drag-and-drop BPAV folder copy? I'm stumped.

July 29th, 2013, 07:17 PM	#4
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: SxS copy issue The newer F3 firmwares needed a new XDCAM Browser version back in the day. They are indeed different from EX3 BPAV folders because F3 footage is not compatible with the older Clip Browser 2.6. That may be part of the issue. Make sure to write-protect your cards before transferring too.

July 30th, 2013, 08:55 AM	#5
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	Re: SxS copy issue AFAIK, I've got the latest F3 firmware, and the newest Content Browser. It is interesting, though: my old Clipbrowser could see the BPAV in question on the F3 card just fine, but when I did the Content Browser "copy all" version of the BPAV, the old ClipBrowser program could still see the card and tried to bring up the clips, but they populated as empty clip boxes with a big black X inside them. I'm hoping that the lack of profanity-laced e-mails from the producer means they were able to access the media in good order on their end.

July 30th, 2013, 02:47 PM	#6
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: SxS copy issue I discovered a bug and reported it to Sony a year ago. I use AMA on Avid and if I copied a card using the clip browser AMA wouldn't recognize it but if I copied the BPAV folder directly through windows explorer it worked fine. It looks like clip browser does not do a direct copy of the metadata files but it creates new ones when it copies the media files. The metadata files it creates are not compatible with AMA. At least not the version of AMA I'm running on my system. So I started to do direct copies of the folders and Avid is much happier with my media. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

July 30th, 2013, 07:25 PM	#7
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	Re: SxS copy issue See...that's funny, because I'm having almost the opposite problem--Windows 7 desktop copies are the issue, not the Content Browser copies. But only on F3 video, not EX-3. Go figure.

July 30th, 2013, 09:31 PM	#8
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: SxS copy issue Now that is quite odd. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

August 7th, 2013, 08:59 AM	#9
Bill Ward Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 580	Re: SxS copy issue So the good news is that the producer was able to download the media off her drag and drop copy without issue. the bad news is I still have no idea why my drag and drop operations with the EX-3 work just fine, but the F3 is a no go.