have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 at DVinfo.net

Malcolm Hamilton · January 9th, 2013, 12:22 PM

Hi there,
My trusty EX1 was badly damaged in an accident on Monday, and it's looking like I'm going to have to replace it (I have insurance). I would dearly like an EX1-R, because 35Mbps is all I need, and so is 4:2:0, and I like the rotating grip, and like being able to plug in an onboard light... but the EX1-R is no longer available in Canada! B&H has them (I trust B&H), but they won't ship a Sony camera outside of the US. I can get a new EXR-1 from GlobalMediaPro, but I worry about buying something from a company I don't know anything about.
Does anyone have any advice about that?

Also... here's something I like about the PMW200: the fact that it's got extra audio channels (only, I think, if you record at 50Mbps... not sure, though). But I'm curious, how can a person use the 4th audio channel?

Thanks for any help,
Malcolm

Dave Sperling · January 9th, 2013, 01:57 PM

No advice about sellers. (I'm assuming you've also checked with EC Professional, Abel, etc.?)

I personally skipped over the EX1R and went to the PMW-200.
In terms of the audio tracks 3&4-- They do record when shooting at 35mbit 420 as well. Haven't tried at 25mbit.
I like having 3&4, even though there is no separate input to them:
- Normally I'll record into the XLR's from an audio person for 1&2, leaving 3&4 on camera mic. I also do that all the time with the bigger XDcam disc cameras. That means there's a bit of a last-resort backup if the camera loses its mixer connection; but more importantly if you're doing any live events where the audio person is taking a stereo feed or where both tracks are taken up with close mics, then 3&4 give you things like audience applause or room ambiance that can be mixed in nicely.
- When working off a mixer, things occasionally happen suddenly that need to be shot when the mixer is off (or not connected, or changing batteries) - and the camera mics at least give you some audio.
- I haven't been doing this - but I'm assuming that if you send 1&2 to double up on 3&4, you would have 3&4 recording with 'auto-gain' - which I normally hate, but could provide a bit of a backup if 1&2 are overmodulated? Might be worth a test.
ALSO - the PMW200 allows you to sync to external time code - and that was the deciding factor for me.
Realistically, I've been running it mainly at 35mbit 420 -- because my clients are used to that workflow. But if I need to do green or blue screen work and the client doesn't want the extra data from a NanoFlash, I switch over to 50mbit 422.

Les Wilson · January 9th, 2013, 02:16 PM

Are you sure that 4 channels record in 35mb mode? This is from Sony's specs (not that they've never been without errors) lol:

UDF Mode (HD Recording)
MPEG HD422 (MPEG-2 422P@HL):
4 channels, 48KHz, 24-bit LPCM

MPEG HD420 (1440x1080, MPEG-2 MP@HL):
4 channels, 48KHz, 16-bit LPCM

UDF Mode (SD Recording)
DVCAM: 4 ch/16 bits/48 kHz

FAT Mode (HD Recording)
MPEG HD420 (1920x1080, MPEG-2 MP@HL):
2 channels, 48KHz, 16-bit LPCM

Fat Mode (SD Recording)
DVCAM: 2 channels, 48 KHz, 16-bit LPCM

Dave Sperling · January 9th, 2013, 02:24 PM

Yes, I've personally shot with the PMW200 at 35mbit 1920x1080 420 (BPAV file structure) and audio recorded to all 4 channels.

(In fact, I had to warn the editors when I switched over to the PMW200 to make sure they knew to separate out the two extra channels and not mix them in unless they needed them.)

Malcolm Hamilton · January 9th, 2013, 03:32 PM

Thanks Dave... that's good information (not available from Sony it seems!) re 4-channel recording. Although, from what I make of this, it's really just three-channel. The fourth channel is getting a duplicate of one of the others... at least that's how I understand it.

Anyway, three channels is a really nice feature that I would find very useful.

The negatives, for me, are the absence of the rotating handle, and Bob Grant's comment (on another thread) that the PMW-200 just doesn't seem like it would stand up as well as the EX1-R. (I really like a workhorse of a camera. The EX1 was good in that respect). The other negative for me re the PMW-200: the lack of shot transition.

In answer to your question about other vendors... neither of the two places you mentioned ship to addresses outside of the US. I could ask my sister-in-law in Vermont to buy it from B&H (I'd then buy it from her), but then the bill of sale/invoice would be in my sister-in-law's name, and I'd worry that this might cause me problems if I ever have to prove ownership—I've never been asked at an airport, for example, but I've been told that sometimes a camera-operator is asked to show proof-of-ownership.

Any thoughts on this?
Thanks very much,
Malcolm

Jack Zhang · January 9th, 2013, 04:36 PM

Do you have third-party batteries? If so, go for the EX1R. The 200 will not accept third party batteries that require a pigtail to work.

Another critical thing is the LCD will obstruct whatever you have on the cold shoe. This is not a problem with the EX1R.

If you want gently used EX1Rs, Zoompoint or Adorama might have some.

Malcolm Hamilton · January 9th, 2013, 04:49 PM

Hi Jack,
Yes, I've checked Adorama, but I'm so incredibly leery of used gear (other than my own, of course).
You say "gently used", but how can a person really know?
It makes things trickier as well, that I live in Canada, and anything that takes place 'long-distance' is harder to fix if anything goes wrong.
Good advice re the batteries and cold shoe...
thanks,
Malcolm

Jack Zhang · January 9th, 2013, 06:28 PM

I'm looking and there's a demo unit in pristine condition on Adorama ATM.

Malcolm Hamilton · January 10th, 2013, 08:57 AM

Hi Jack,
Thanks for the note; I've now bookmarked an EX1-R on the adorama site, and will enquire once I find out Sony gets back to me re repair or replacement.
I would still be a bit more comfortable buying in Canada, just in case I need some service of some kind... I see you live in Canada, in Vancouver. Are there any stores there that still have new EX1-Rs for sale?
thanks very much,
Malcolm

Shaun Roemich · January 10th, 2013, 09:50 AM

Malcolm, Hamilton Video and Sound in Hamilton, Ontario is a DVInfo sponsor and a long standing supplier of mine. Even though I too live on the west coast now, a sizable amount of my gear still comes from there. Give then a call and ask for Mike or Peter and tell then that I referred you.

Malcolm Hamilton · January 10th, 2013, 11:42 AM

thanks for this Shaun. I've placed a call... am waiting for Mike to call back.
Regards,
Malcolm

Jack Zhang · January 10th, 2013, 12:02 PM

I got my EX1R from Genesis Matrix Video a year ago. You could try there to see if they still have any.

Bob Jackson · January 12th, 2013, 05:26 PM

In Vancouver try Commercial Electronics, Matrix Video, and Leo's Cameras.
One never knows.

Malcolm Hamilton · January 12th, 2013, 10:27 PM

Jack, Bob and Shaun,
Thanks so much for your advice (and Shaun, Pete at Hamilton Video and Sound is indeed a really great guy), but as you'll see from my latest thread (How to deal with an insurance company... any advice?) I'm not very sure what my next step might be.
Many thanks,
Malcolm

January 9th, 2013, 12:22 PM	#1
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Hi there, My trusty EX1 was badly damaged in an accident on Monday, and it's looking like I'm going to have to replace it (I have insurance). I would dearly like an EX1-R, because 35Mbps is all I need, and so is 4:2:0, and I like the rotating grip, and like being able to plug in an onboard light... but the EX1-R is no longer available in Canada! B&H has them (I trust B&H), but they won't ship a Sony camera outside of the US. I can get a new EXR-1 from GlobalMediaPro, but I worry about buying something from a company I don't know anything about. Does anyone have any advice about that? Also... here's something I like about the PMW200: the fact that it's got extra audio channels (only, I think, if you record at 50Mbps... not sure, though). But I'm curious, how can a person use the 4th audio channel? Thanks for any help, Malcolm

January 9th, 2013, 01:57 PM	#2
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 No advice about sellers. (I'm assuming you've also checked with EC Professional, Abel, etc.?) I personally skipped over the EX1R and went to the PMW-200. In terms of the audio tracks 3&4-- They do record when shooting at 35mbit 420 as well. Haven't tried at 25mbit. I like having 3&4, even though there is no separate input to them: - Normally I'll record into the XLR's from an audio person for 1&2, leaving 3&4 on camera mic. I also do that all the time with the bigger XDcam disc cameras. That means there's a bit of a last-resort backup if the camera loses its mixer connection; but more importantly if you're doing any live events where the audio person is taking a stereo feed or where both tracks are taken up with close mics, then 3&4 give you things like audience applause or room ambiance that can be mixed in nicely. - When working off a mixer, things occasionally happen suddenly that need to be shot when the mixer is off (or not connected, or changing batteries) - and the camera mics at least give you some audio. - I haven't been doing this - but I'm assuming that if you send 1&2 to double up on 3&4, you would have 3&4 recording with 'auto-gain' - which I normally hate, but could provide a bit of a backup if 1&2 are overmodulated? Might be worth a test. ALSO - the PMW200 allows you to sync to external time code - and that was the deciding factor for me. Realistically, I've been running it mainly at 35mbit 420 -- because my clients are used to that workflow. But if I need to do green or blue screen work and the client doesn't want the extra data from a NanoFlash, I switch over to 50mbit 422.

January 9th, 2013, 02:16 PM	#3
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Are you sure that 4 channels record in 35mb mode? This is from Sony's specs (not that they've never been without errors) lol: UDF Mode (HD Recording) MPEG HD422 (MPEG-2 422P@HL): 4 channels, 48KHz, 24-bit LPCM MPEG HD420 (1440x1080, MPEG-2 MP@HL): 4 channels, 48KHz, 16-bit LPCM UDF Mode (SD Recording) DVCAM: 4 ch/16 bits/48 kHz FAT Mode (HD Recording) MPEG HD420 (1920x1080, MPEG-2 MP@HL): 2 channels, 48KHz, 16-bit LPCM Fat Mode (SD Recording) DVCAM: 2 channels, 48 KHz, 16-bit LPCM

January 9th, 2013, 02:24 PM	#4
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Yes, I've personally shot with the PMW200 at 35mbit 1920x1080 420 (BPAV file structure) and audio recorded to all 4 channels. (In fact, I had to warn the editors when I switched over to the PMW200 to make sure they knew to separate out the two extra channels and not mix them in unless they needed them.)

January 9th, 2013, 03:32 PM	#5
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Thanks Dave... that's good information (not available from Sony it seems!) re 4-channel recording. Although, from what I make of this, it's really just three-channel. The fourth channel is getting a duplicate of one of the others... at least that's how I understand it. Anyway, three channels is a really nice feature that I would find very useful. The negatives, for me, are the absence of the rotating handle, and Bob Grant's comment (on another thread) that the PMW-200 just doesn't seem like it would stand up as well as the EX1-R. (I really like a workhorse of a camera. The EX1 was good in that respect). The other negative for me re the PMW-200: the lack of shot transition. In answer to your question about other vendors... neither of the two places you mentioned ship to addresses outside of the US. I could ask my sister-in-law in Vermont to buy it from B&H (I'd then buy it from her), but then the bill of sale/invoice would be in my sister-in-law's name, and I'd worry that this might cause me problems if I ever have to prove ownership—I've never been asked at an airport, for example, but I've been told that sometimes a camera-operator is asked to show proof-of-ownership. Any thoughts on this? Thanks very much, Malcolm

January 9th, 2013, 04:36 PM	#6
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Do you have third-party batteries? If so, go for the EX1R. The 200 will not accept third party batteries that require a pigtail to work. Another critical thing is the LCD will obstruct whatever you have on the cold shoe. This is not a problem with the EX1R. If you want gently used EX1Rs, Zoompoint or Adorama might have some.

January 9th, 2013, 04:49 PM	#7
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Hi Jack, Yes, I've checked Adorama, but I'm so incredibly leery of used gear (other than my own, of course). You say "gently used", but how can a person really know? It makes things trickier as well, that I live in Canada, and anything that takes place 'long-distance' is harder to fix if anything goes wrong. Good advice re the batteries and cold shoe... thanks, Malcolm

January 9th, 2013, 06:28 PM	#8
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 I'm looking and there's a demo unit in pristine condition on Adorama ATM.

January 10th, 2013, 08:57 AM	#9
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Hi Jack, Thanks for the note; I've now bookmarked an EX1-R on the adorama site, and will enquire once I find out Sony gets back to me re repair or replacement. I would still be a bit more comfortable buying in Canada, just in case I need some service of some kind... I see you live in Canada, in Vancouver. Are there any stores there that still have new EX1-Rs for sale? thanks very much, Malcolm

January 10th, 2013, 09:50 AM	#10
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Malcolm, Hamilton Video and Sound in Hamilton, Ontario is a DVInfo sponsor and a long standing supplier of mine. Even though I too live on the west coast now, a sizable amount of my gear still comes from there. Give then a call and ask for Mike or Peter and tell then that I referred you. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

January 10th, 2013, 11:42 AM	#11
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 thanks for this Shaun. I've placed a call... am waiting for Mike to call back. Regards, Malcolm

January 10th, 2013, 12:02 PM	#12
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 I got my EX1R from Genesis Matrix Video a year ago. You could try there to see if they still have any.

January 12th, 2013, 05:26 PM	#13
Bob Jackson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Republic of Vancouver Island Posts: 200	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 In Vancouver try Commercial Electronics, Matrix Video, and Leo's Cameras. One never knows. __________________ Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. AC Clarke

January 12th, 2013, 10:27 PM	#14
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: have to replace EX1: two critical questions re EX1-R and PMW200 Jack, Bob and Shaun, Thanks so much for your advice (and Shaun, Pete at Hamilton Video and Sound is indeed a really great guy), but as you'll see from my latest thread (How to deal with an insurance company... any advice?) I'm not very sure what my next step might be. Many thanks, Malcolm