Sony PMW-200 Brings HD 4:2:2 Workflow to XDCAM Camcorder Line

[Doug Jensen]

Galen, I have no idea, but it won't be my primary camera because I own so many other cameras. The F800 and F3 are still my go-to cameras for different types of situations. The PMW-200 is a great little run & gun backpack kind of camera -- but still perfectly capable of replacing the F800 or F3 at anytime without sacrificing quality.

If I could only keep one camera, it'd be the F800 -- but I've got about $65K wrapped up in that camera. If I could only have one camera under $20K it'd be the PMW-200 or an EX3. It would not be the F3 or any of my other cameras.

[Doug Jensen]

Some additional information on the PMW-200, PMW-160, and PMW-100.

XDCAM Essentials Episode 1 on Vimeo

[Paul Cronin]

As always Doug a first class video that is very informative. Sony is lucky to have you showing the world how great the XDCAM line of camera is and how to use the product. Look forward to following the new series.

[Terence Morris]

BEWILDERED. Having read this entire thread (a lot of it over my head) I think I just need someone to simply tell me what to buy - PMW 200 or XF300. Needs: Portability for ENG style documentary work. Want the most filmic look and good low light. Not a production company, just a keen amateur and both could fit the budget (although not keen on the Sony media outlay). Thank you.

[John M. Kim]

Terence,

Since you asked for the Draconian response, here's my answer:

Buy the Sony PMW-200.

-- Because of the relatively larger sensor, it is easier to achieve a more "filmic" look and it is slightly better in low light.

-- As an ENG shooter, you will appreciate the controls of the PMW-200 more. Neither have fully mechanical controls, but the PMW-200 "breathes" less overall, and there is less perceived delay when using the zoom and iris. The hard stops on the controls of the PMW-200 are also better.

-- Sony stands by the SxS Pro cards. It's unlikely that you'll suffer lost footage, but if you do, Sony will step in to try to recover it. You get what you pay for.

-- I found that for handheld shooting the XF300 is terribly front heavy. The PMW-200, with a large battery pack, can be used in a pinch pressed against your right shoulder, and although it's no substitute for a shoulder mounted camera, it just feels better on the wrist than the XF300. Try them both out and see if you agree.

Both are good cameras and you'll find merits in each, but IMHO the advantage goes to Sony.

I'm located in New York and know of several colleagues who are in production with long lead documentaries. A few of them are using the PMW-200. I don't know of any that chose the XF300.

[Glen Vandermolen]

John Kim, that is excellent advice.

The one thing the XF300/305 had over the EX1/3 cams was the XF codec. Now that the PMW200 has a similar codec, the advantage must go to the larger chip 200. The EX line already produces great images. Adding a true broadcast codec can only make the 200 even better.

[Al Bergstein]

As an xf305 owner who stumbled on this thread, and since you asked, I would tend to agree that if I had to buy over, I'd take a very serious look now at what Sony has to offer in this camera. Some additional thoughts for you to consider, especially if you can't rent them both for a week. Thoughts inline.

Originally Posted by John M. Kim

Terence,

Since you asked for the Draconian response, here's my answer:

Buy the Sony PMW-200.

-- Because of the relatively larger sensor, it is easier to achieve a more "filmic" look and it is slightly better in low light.

Al says: That is likely true. The xf305 is harder to give the 'filmic' look to. However, recently on Vimeo an Italian filmmaker put up a wonderful short that is as close to a HDSLR look I've seen. He did a very nice job.
For a three minute look, this is worth a peek to see that often the camera in the hands of someone who knows it can do more than most might think. https://vimeo.com/32406825

-- As an ENG shooter, you will appreciate the controls of the PMW-200 more. Neither have fully mechanical controls, but the PMW-200 "breathes" less overall, and there is less perceived delay when using the zoom and iris. The hard stops on the controls of the PMW-200 are also better.

Al says: I agree there is a slight delay on the 300 zoom, but I really like it's crawl. I also reprogram the handle zoom to be fast, and the grip zoom to be only slow. If the Sony can do that, I would alter it, as I find sometimes I want to get in quick, but don't want to have the opportunity of doing it accidentally (G). And yes, the hard stops on the Sony seem to be better than the 300's though it is a slight advantage.

Al says: I do like that they have 4 channels of audio available. This can help a one man band eliminate carrying a field mixer for larger interviews.

-- Sony stands by the SxS Pro cards. It's unlikely that you'll suffer lost footage, but if you do, Sony will step in to try to recover it. You get what you pay for.

Al says: I've yet to have a Sandisk CF card fail on me in over two years of shooting, either on the 300 or my 5D's. I cannot say that about SD cards. Even the best tend to fail, having used a T2i for a few years. But the SxS are known entities that have a global company standing behind, and that could help in a pinch somewhere hard to reach. Then again, carrying 10 of them is quite a bit more expensive I would think than the CF cards. And I can easily buy CF cards on the road, most cities have a pro camera shop that has them. For me, that mattered.

-- I found that for handheld shooting the XF300 is terribly front heavy. The PMW-200, with a large battery pack, can be used in a pinch pressed against your right shoulder, and although it's no substitute for a shoulder mounted camera, it just feels better on the wrist than the XF300. Try them both out and see if you agree.

Al says: While I tend to agree that it is a bit front heavy, I can easily rest the xf305 on my shoulder for long minutes,and using the IS helps a great deal, but I agree that likely both cameras should be on a shoulder mount attachment for long shooting. I have a device that allows me to attach my external battery back to the back of the mount. So it is 'fixable' on both cameras. But still neither appears to be a 'shoulder mount'.

Both are good cameras and you'll find merits in each, but IMHO the advantage goes to Sony.

I'm located in New York and know of several colleagues who are in production with long lead documentaries. A few of them are using the PMW-200. I don't know of any that chose the XF300.

Al says: Yes, the traditional doc shooters I've run into very much prefer Sony. Canon has just not really worked that field well, and so many pro shooters have been using Sony in industrial and broadcast. More attachments and cameras exist in rental pools for Sony. A much wider range of people trained in it. So again, if you are really working in the field, traveling a lot, needing to rent a 2nd camera or hire a second shooter, I would agree and go with Sony. If you are shooting on your own, won't be doing all those other types of shooting, the xf305 is a wonderful camera, and is worth a look.

[Vincent Oliver]

Al you forgot to mention the wonderful display of yellow streaks on the XF300/305 viewfinder, especially once the sun has had a few split seconds to do its work.

Cameras are generally a matter of personal preference, both the Sony and Canon have their faults, as does most equipment but you find a workaround for most sooner or later.

"put up a wonderful short that is as close to a HDSLR look I've seen. He did a very nice job."

This must be a first on this forum, and I always thought the HDSLR was the runner up for video work.

Oh, and by the way, the close up and film look were created with the Redrock M3 lens adapter with Nikon lenses fitted to his XF300.

[Terence Morris]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses to my (admittedly) somewhat boneheaded question. I do welcome the clarification. I was leaning towards the Sony, but I think on balance that has it clinched.

[Ron Evans]

Not sure what you want to video or where, but have you considered a totally different approach like a Sony HXR-NX30, a Sony VG30 and a Ninja 2 ? You could get all these different cameras for different uses and still have almost $1500 left compared to the PMW-200, Ottawa prices. True, you would not have the fine picture profile control of the PMW 200 but the NX30 has fantastic image stabilizer for hand held shooting, the VG30 has the shallow depth of field and interchangeable lenses for the film look etc and with the Ninja 2 both can record to high quality codec over HDMI and to relatively low cost hard drives. They can also both shoot 1920x1080P60 to AVCHD 2.0 as well as the North American frame rates the PMW-200 shoots at ( VG30 does not shoot 1280x720P60 I think but NX30 does with full time code including out of the HDMI). You could pack them all in a backpack too.

Ron Evans

[Al Bergstein]

Thanks Vince, I emailed Luca before your reply here , and he didn't mention the Redrock, unless you were pulling my leg....(G). I certainly wouldn't need a Redrock to get a close up like that. It's more the overall feel of the video, not a specific shot I was alluding to. Since it was on the XF forum, I thought I was seeing a C300 shot, not a xf300.

I haven't experienced the yellow streaks that some have encountered. I guess I wasn't diligent enough to put the VF in the sun over the last, I think year and a half of shooting. But even my Zacuto finder for my 5D has a label saying not to expose it to the sun. So I'm not tempted to try. And Sony has had warnings for decades apparently saying not to expose their VF to the sun.

As to "as close to an HDSLR look I've seen', the OP was talking about a 'filmic look' which I assume means shallow DOF and other traits we think of as "filmic". Maybe the right word is "theatrical". My work with any ENG camera has not been what I would consider "like film". It seems more "like ENG". Could be me, likely is.

I find cameras to be a tool, I'm not married to any one brand, as mentioned if I looked today for an ENG, knowing where I am at now, I'd likely seriously consider the 200. The 1/2 sensor very likely does outperform the xf300 in low light. The iPhone remote seems like a nice touch. 4 Channel audio as well. But the 300 has served me very well. I consider the best camera I've got in my toolkit.

HDSLR is not a 'runner up' but appropriate for certain types of jobs, as ENG is appropriate for others.

Anyway, I think we've all helped him make up his mind, and I think he'll likely be a happy camper.

Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver

Al you forgot to mention the wonderful display of yellow streaks on the XF300/305 viewfinder, especially once the sun has had a few split seconds to do its work.

Cameras are generally a matter of personal preference, both the Sony and Canon have their faults, as does most equipment but you find a workaround for most sooner or later.

"put up a wonderful short that is as close to a HDSLR look I've seen. He did a very nice job."

This must be a first on this forum, and I always thought the HDSLR was the runner up for video work.

Oh, and by the way, the close up and film look were created with the Redrock M3 lens adapter with Nikon lenses fitted to his XF300.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Terence Morris

BEWILDERED. Having read this entire thread (a lot of it over my head) I think I just need someone to simply tell me what to buy - PMW 200 or XF300. Needs: Portability for ENG style documentary work. Want the most filmic look and good low light. Not a production company, just a keen amateur and both could fit the budget (although not keen on the Sony media outlay). Thank you.

Yes, on balance I'd also tend to go for the PMW200 out of the two, and main headline reason must be it's 1/2" chips over the 1/3" of the XF305. It gives it an inherent advantage in such respects as lowlight performance and depth of field issues.

As others have said, they both share the same codec, which has full acceptance for general broadcast work - and as Glen says, now the PMW200 has that codec it takes away the one headline advantage that the XF305 previously had over the EX1/3.

But you say "keen amateur" and "not keen on the Sony media outlay", in which case the 50Mbs full broadcast spec codec may not be of such importance to you anyway? In which case, bear in mind that in 35Mbs mode it's feasible to use standard SDHC cards in this camera via an adaptor - and the 35Mbs mode is still considered fully broadcast compliant for "journalism cameras" according to the EBU.

[Bill Petropoulos]

Terence,

XF300 vs. PMW-200 in low light:

sony PMW-200????? - YouTube

Although, shooting in 720p gives more sensitivity to the XF300:

XF300 Resolution Sensitivity Test - YouTube

The XF300 is currently $4695 vs. $6299 for the PMW-200.
After you factor in cost of media, CF vs. SxS cards, I think the decision is easy.

I bought and returned the PMW-200 because the low-light wasn't really any better than the HMC-150 I was replacing. Also, the LCD on the Sony has to either stay closed or open, if you have a light or wireless receiver in the cold-shoe. I also didn't like all the open vents on the camera body.

Just some things to think about...

[John M. Kim]

The cost of SxS Pro cards is certainly a bitter pill to swallow. Luckily I was able to find used 32GB cards on the auction site for ~ $325 each. Expensive, but much cheaper than new.

One other advantage of the PMW200: 24-bit audio.

The XDCAM HD codec of the PMW200 comes with 8 channels of audio, whereas the camera only records 4. It's a minor pain to always cut out 4 channels of audio (many ways to do this, it depends on your NLE).

The only true annoyance I find about the PMW200 is that the internal noise of the camera -- I think it's the stabilization engine or something else in the lens mechanism -- is audible in very quiet rooms, even when in 100% fully manual mode. Occasionally it'll get picked up in my recording, even through my external microphone. It's certainly louder than other cameras I've heard. It's easy to post-process and get rid of, but it's not enjoyable to have to do this at all.

You'll go around in circles listing the merits of each. You might not be fully able to come to a decision without using both.

[David Dwyer]

Which lens remote is suitable for the PMW-200 as I have made a error with purchasing the below item

524CFi Intelligent Zoom Remote Control For ENG Lenses 524CFI - Lens | Manfrotto

Is there any way I can get that working with some converter cable?