EX1 to card and live stream

[Bill Heslip]

Hello all,

I've got an upcoming gig that requires that I provide a live audio/video feed from the EX1 to a Mac computer, in addition to recording to cards internally. Is there a way to accomplish this?

A couple of things I'm wondering is weather the camera USB port is an option (I'm thinking not), or use the component-out feature of the camera (and RCA audio connections) to feed a Blackmagic card or similar. SDI-out could be another option I suppose. Does it carry audio?

Any experience shared will be greatly appreciated.

Bill

[Chris Medico]

SDI out is your best option. It does carry audio.

Firewire is possible but only when you are in 1440x1080 mode. Not your best recording option in my opinion.

No live video is available via the USB port.

[Bill Heslip]

Thanks for the great info, Chris.

To be honest, I'd forgotten the camera even had firewire out. But there it is, right below the headset jack, which I use all the time. Sheesh.

I'm leaning toward HDV/firewire at this point. Plenty good enough for this particular project.

Thanks again.

Bill

[Jack Zhang]

The EX1R has live DV downconversion since it has SD recording and output capability.

Unfortunately, the EX1 requires a AV/DV converter taking a signal from the Composite AV out to convert into DV firewire.

You cannot output HD via firewire unless your recording mode is SP 1080/60i.

This is if you're thinking of doing live streaming using the Mac, not monitoring or capturing. HD firewire also cannot be used for live streaming.

To be honest, the best solution is a LiveU transmitter via the SDI output of the EX1 if all you're doing is live streaming. You can even do it in HD with the LiveU. Disadvantage over a Mac is the price and that it's available for lease only.

[Bill Heslip]

Well, this changes the equation. Can't stream HDV?

I really need an EX1R anyway.

[Alister Chapman]

You can use a Mac with a Matrox MX02 and various apps including wirecast to stream from HDSDi, The MX02 is not that expensive and a useful device to have.
Ustream supports HDV over firewire with a paid plugin.

[Chris Medico]

+1 on Alisters comment. You absolutely can webcast with HDV from an EX1.

[Richard Cavell]

The Firewire options are a bit restrictive on the EX-1. (By the way, Sony calls it i.Link instead of Firewire).

I'd vote for SDI, with some method of capturing the SDI on the iMac (and yes, you should start at the BlackMagic website). SDI can do everything you need while not interfering in any way with the operation of the rest of the camera. It's supposed to be used for monitoring, I suppose. Imagine you're a film director in the folding chair and you're watching a monitor. That's what the SDI feed is for.

You can also use component, composite or HDMI. USB does not provide live feed.

Richard

[Les Wilson]

Black Magic has an SDI card called the Decklink SDI that does SDI input and output. I use it in a MacPro and find it quite stable. It comes with a capture program. Whatever software you are using would need to support the Decklink card you choose.

Also, with SDI, only a single cable is needed. No need to go to component + audio.

[Jack Zhang]

HDV requires the computer to decode the MPEG-2 first, then encode to H.264. This introduces several seconds of lag that might not work if it's interactive. HDV has a 2 second lag just coming out of the camera.

If it's HD or bust, you have to go SDI or HDMI. If you are getting the EX1R, the HDMI can shave you a couple hundred bucks with the Intensity Pro instead of the Decklink SDI. This is assuming if your camera will be close to your Mac. If it is further away, (past 10ft) SDI becomes more important the longer you run your cable from the camera to the Mac.

For raw encoding power, a Mac laptop is not going to cut it for HD. It pretty much has to be a Mac Pro tower. Also be very aware of uplink bandwidth at your location and whether it along with your Mac Pro will allow either 720p or 1080p.

Another thing, Web streaming is strictly 30p or bust. Set your EX1R to HQ 1920/30p and your PsF output from the camera will be encoded progressively to 1080p30 for web streaming (assuming the mac can encode 1080 efficiently)

Be sure to turn off your "YPbPr/Digital Out Display" setting as that superimposes camera data onto your feed.

[Chris Medico]

I don't mean to be argumentative but some of that info isn't in sync with what I have experienced from doing these types of webcasts.

I have 25' firewire cables. They exceed the spec but work fine. HDV via firewire is a very cost effective method for getting video that is more than good enough to webcast into the computer.

The delay out of the camera and through the computer is more in order of a half second not two seconds.

I have used my 6 year old dual core WinXP laptop to encode the HDV from the camera to the web many times with great results. I can't imagine a decent MAC laptop being less capable.

There is always lag when using a web streaming service. For most applications it is no problem.

Web streaming can be any frame rate you wish (at least on uStream it can). I have used 10fps on a cell uplink but if I have a better connection I will use 24fps to 30fps.

[Alister Chapman]

+1 on what Chris said.

I've streamed live events using MacBooks and HDV for several years. A current MacBook or iMac is easily capable of handling HDV. I've even stream tornadoes live from the middle of nowhere from a moving vehicle. You can use any frame rate you want, but from the camera you probably want either 25P or 30P as with 24P you get pull up added when using firewire.

While it is true that extra CPU cycles are required to decode the Mpeg, the extra memory bandwidth required to pass uncompressed HD from Sdi creates more of a headache for most computers than the relatively easy mpeg 2 decode. I too typically experience only a few frames of lag getting the footage from the camera to a data stream. There are likely to be many other latency issues further down the line than will cause bigger delays than the few frames lost during the encode.

[Bill Heslip]

So it appears that I have 3 viable options.

1) SDI to a Blackmagic Decklink SDI <$300.
2) Firewire (HDV mode) ~free.
3) S-video SD analog out (I've got a breakout cable) routed through a DV camera for conversion to firewire SD (if SD is preferred for streaming). SD out doesn't look so good but I can record internally to any format I choose.

As long as these methods will allow recording to camera while simultaneously providing a stream feed, I'm good, though SDI looks to be my best bet.

Thanks for everyone's thoughtful input.

Bill

[Jack Zhang]

The EX1 does not have S-video, only composite video.

But SDI if you're streaming HD is certainly your best bet.

[Chris Medico]

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

The EX1 does not have S-video, only composite video.

But SDI if you're streaming HD is certainly your best bet.

It actually does but the cable that comes with it doesn't have the connector. You need to get an optional cable with the S-video connector.

The part number to look for is VMC-30FS. Sony doesn't sell them anymore. They can be found as knock-offs and overstocks if you look around.