EX1R - record to two sources at once at DVinfo.net

Peter D. Parker · December 31st, 2011, 11:03 AM

Is it possible to record to two sources using the EX1R, ie to SXS internal card and external HDD, at the same time?

Cheers

Peter

Chris Medico · December 31st, 2011, 11:18 AM

Sure. You can record to the internal card and at the same time record to an external recorder via HDMI or SDI.

That is an excellent way to do a proxy workflow using the internal recording as the proxy and recording a much higher bitrate externally to plug in later.

Peter D. Parker · December 31st, 2011, 11:25 AM

Thanks Chris.

No chance of recording from both slots at the same time though, A - SxS and B e-films HDR?

Using the HDMI or SDI will take up one of the monitor options (although Ninja and t'other one I can't spell) have monitors built in. Does the EX1 have a firewire output so I could use an MRCK1?

Haven't bought the camera yet, just pondering on some options for when I do.

Cheers again.

Peter

Chris Medico · December 31st, 2011, 11:43 AM

You can't record to both slots at the same time.

There is firewire on the camera but it only outputs when the camera is in 25mb mode (1440x1080, HDVish). You would get the same thing recording to the internal card or though the firewire. No real benefit unless you were trying to make dual copies for backup.

Both HDMI and SDI can be used to drive multiple devices simultaneously. You can split the HDMI and send one to a recorder and one to a monitor (assuming your recorder isn't also a montor).

Many SDI devices have loopthrough ability so you can continue the signal to multiple devices.

Olof Ekbergh · December 31st, 2011, 03:56 PM

I use a NanoFlash a lot of the time on my EX3 and EX1R.

It uses the SDI out, and can be set to trigger rec anytime TC advances so both internal SxS and NF record whenever rec button is pushed if you set TC to advance while recording.

This is great when you only have one camera and footage is really important.

The NanoFlash also has loop through SDI so I usually monitor output on a 5, 7, 9 or 20" monitor this way you have monitoring and confidence the NF signal is good.

Dave Sperling · December 31st, 2011, 04:52 PM

Actually the NanoFlash not only provides a loop-through signal (of either HD-SDI or HDMI), but gives you the other output type as well, so you can feed both HDSDI and HDMI monitors from the NanoFlash simultaneously if you wish.

Michael Sims · December 31st, 2011, 06:43 PM

I always record to my internal SxS cards and to my Nanoflash. The SxS card footage is great if the client wants to go back and check a previous take. The Nano files are for editing. I also use one of Olof's excellent brackets to hold my Nano on my EX-1.

Peter D. Parker · January 1st, 2012, 06:02 AM

Thanks everybody for the replies, it's much appreciated.

I can't really afford the SxS cards and was a bit concerned about using SDHC cards for reliability. If it was an important job, I wanted someway to record to two sources, so if the card went down, I had the external source to fall back on.

Your replies have given me something to think about, so thanks again.

Peter

Les Wilson · January 1st, 2012, 07:22 AM

Most ex1r packages include a 16gb SxS card with the camera. The extraordinary reliability of the SxS is well documented here on dvinfo. That is what you are paying for: reliability. There's also SxS-1 media which just has a shorter lifespan not less reliability. They are cheaper. There's also an MxM device that let's you record to an external SSD drive instead of internal SxS but frankly, I believe it's all the same fundamental technology. I believe in an SxS card, you have the most reliable incarnation of solid state media available to us. The less expensive leans toward less reliability and that then drives the dual record feature. Why have dual record when you have reliable media? How long do you keep the second card? What's the real cost difference when you are buying two of everything? How cheap do you go on precious media? Why would you ever depend on cheap media for your reputation and business?

Jack Zhang · January 1st, 2012, 09:12 AM

I will say this: Global Television in Canada is currently relying on SDHC cards via SxS adapters in their PMW-350s for their ENG operations. They have had cards fail on them, but the news still makes it to air.

Chris Medico · January 1st, 2012, 09:49 AM

I use SDHC as well as SxS cards in the EX1 and the F3.

I did have some troubles when I was experimenting with cheap cards. I purchased higher end SDHC cards and have not had any failures in more than 2 years. Obviously these cards will not have the same life as the SxS cards.

Dave Sperling · January 1st, 2012, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Wilson

. The less expensive leans toward less reliability and that then drives the dual record feature. Why have dual record when you have reliable media?

Lee, though I always use SxS or SxS-1 cards at this point, There are a number of other advantages to dual recording that shouldn't be minimized, such as 4:2:2, higher bit rates, use of the outboard recorder for client review purposes (while the camera is setting up/ rehearsing the next shot), and the ability to record to files that the client can open directly in an NLE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

I will say this: Global Television in Canada is currently relying on SDHC cards via SxS adapters in their PMW-350s for their ENG operations. They have had cards fail on them, but the news still makes it to air.

Many threads out there about SD card reliability. Just an additional story -- two weeks ago I was working on a multi-camera shoot where I was using an F3 (w/SxS cards) and the client had brought some DSLR's. One of their (name brand) SD cards literally fell apart when being removed from camera - and they had to go through some major contortions to get the data offloaded. No this doesn't happen every day, but even occasionally is too often for me... I was just glad it wasn't either my card or my footage...

Les Wilson · January 1st, 2012, 12:27 PM

@Dave. Very true. I was only speaking to the redundancy issue and not the added value (as you point out) that external recorders such as the Nanoflash give.

Luc De Wandel · January 2nd, 2012, 06:53 AM

I cannot repeat this enough: SD(HC) cards are not meant for professional use of any kind. They are flimsy, vulnerable and designed for amateur use. Not one of the pro DSLR-s I have used over the last 14 years have had SD-cards as their main recording media. As a backup, maybe, but never as as the main source.

So, unless you have a device that can use the much more reliable and sturdy Compact Flash media, SxS is the way to go.

That said, I used to be a professional stills photographer and video is only my hobby, so I tried cutting some corners by buying an adapter and SDHC-cards for my Sony PMW-320. But I sold all of the cards after only one month, because I don't trust them and I certainly don't like the way I had to insert them and release them from the adapter. Even my non-commercial amateur shots deserve better, so I bought second hand SxS cards on Ebay. Not such a huge investment, as you really only need two... Just my two eurocents...

December 31st, 2011, 11:03 AM	#1
Peter D. Parker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Preston England Posts: 147	EX1R - record to two sources at once Is it possible to record to two sources using the EX1R, ie to SXS internal card and external HDD, at the same time? Cheers Peter

December 31st, 2011, 11:18 AM	#2
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once Sure. You can record to the internal card and at the same time record to an external recorder via HDMI or SDI. That is an excellent way to do a proxy workflow using the internal recording as the proxy and recording a much higher bitrate externally to plug in later. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

December 31st, 2011, 11:25 AM	#3
Peter D. Parker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Preston England Posts: 147	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once Thanks Chris. No chance of recording from both slots at the same time though, A - SxS and B e-films HDR? Using the HDMI or SDI will take up one of the monitor options (although Ninja and t'other one I can't spell) have monitors built in. Does the EX1 have a firewire output so I could use an MRCK1? Haven't bought the camera yet, just pondering on some options for when I do. Cheers again. Peter

December 31st, 2011, 11:43 AM	#4
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once You can't record to both slots at the same time. There is firewire on the camera but it only outputs when the camera is in 25mb mode (1440x1080, HDVish). You would get the same thing recording to the internal card or though the firewire. No real benefit unless you were trying to make dual copies for backup. Both HDMI and SDI can be used to drive multiple devices simultaneously. You can split the HDMI and send one to a recorder and one to a monitor (assuming your recorder isn't also a montor). Many SDI devices have loopthrough ability so you can continue the signal to multiple devices. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

December 31st, 2011, 03:56 PM	#5
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once I use a NanoFlash a lot of the time on my EX3 and EX1R. It uses the SDI out, and can be set to trigger rec anytime TC advances so both internal SxS and NF record whenever rec button is pushed if you set TC to advance while recording. This is great when you only have one camera and footage is really important. The NanoFlash also has loop through SDI so I usually monitor output on a 5, 7, 9 or 20" monitor this way you have monitoring and confidence the NF signal is good. __________________ Olof Ekbergh • olof@WestsideAV.com Westside A V Studios • http://www.WestsideAVstore.com/

December 31st, 2011, 04:52 PM	#6
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once Actually the NanoFlash not only provides a loop-through signal (of either HD-SDI or HDMI), but gives you the other output type as well, so you can feed both HDSDI and HDMI monitors from the NanoFlash simultaneously if you wish.

December 31st, 2011, 06:43 PM	#7
Michael Sims Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Palm Harbor, Florida Posts: 102	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once I always record to my internal SxS cards and to my Nanoflash. The SxS card footage is great if the client wants to go back and check a previous take. The Nano files are for editing. I also use one of Olof's excellent brackets to hold my Nano on my EX-1.

January 1st, 2012, 06:02 AM	#8
Peter D. Parker Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Preston England Posts: 147	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once Thanks everybody for the replies, it's much appreciated. I can't really afford the SxS cards and was a bit concerned about using SDHC cards for reliability. If it was an important job, I wanted someway to record to two sources, so if the card went down, I had the external source to fall back on. Your replies have given me something to think about, so thanks again. Peter

January 1st, 2012, 07:22 AM	#9
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once Most ex1r packages include a 16gb SxS card with the camera. The extraordinary reliability of the SxS is well documented here on dvinfo. That is what you are paying for: reliability. There's also SxS-1 media which just has a shorter lifespan not less reliability. They are cheaper. There's also an MxM device that let's you record to an external SSD drive instead of internal SxS but frankly, I believe it's all the same fundamental technology. I believe in an SxS card, you have the most reliable incarnation of solid state media available to us. The less expensive leans toward less reliability and that then drives the dual record feature. Why have dual record when you have reliable media? How long do you keep the second card? What's the real cost difference when you are buying two of everything? How cheap do you go on precious media? Why would you ever depend on cheap media for your reputation and business? Last edited by Les Wilson; January 1st, 2012 at 12:24 PM. Reason: spelling

January 1st, 2012, 09:12 AM	#10
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once I will say this: Global Television in Canada is currently relying on SDHC cards via SxS adapters in their PMW-350s for their ENG operations. They have had cards fail on them, but the news still makes it to air.

January 1st, 2012, 09:49 AM	#11
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once I use SDHC as well as SxS cards in the EX1 and the F3. I did have some troubles when I was experimenting with cheap cards. I purchased higher end SDHC cards and have not had any failures in more than 2 years. Obviously these cards will not have the same life as the SxS cards. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

January 1st, 2012, 12:27 PM	#13
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once @Dave. Very true. I was only speaking to the redundancy issue and not the added value (as you point out) that external recorders such as the Nanoflash give.

January 2nd, 2012, 06:53 AM	#14
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Re: EX1R - record to two sources at once I cannot repeat this enough: SD(HC) cards are not meant for professional use of any kind. They are flimsy, vulnerable and designed for amateur use. Not one of the pro DSLR-s I have used over the last 14 years have had SD-cards as their main recording media. As a backup, maybe, but never as as the main source. So, unless you have a device that can use the much more reliable and sturdy Compact Flash media, SxS is the way to go. That said, I used to be a professional stills photographer and video is only my hobby, so I tried cutting some corners by buying an adapter and SDHC-cards for my Sony PMW-320. But I sold all of the cards after only one month, because I don't trust them and I certainly don't like the way I had to insert them and release them from the adapter. Even my non-commercial amateur shots deserve better, so I bought second hand SxS cards on Ebay. Not such a huge investment, as you really only need two... Just my two eurocents...